Another issue with most non boosted mod motors is going over 4 to 6 lbs of boost actually 4 is best. Its because the rings are too close to the piston crown to help reduce emissions. Pistons are needed to have rings further from the crown more like old school stuff to survive long under higher boost.
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Fuck it, run a 75 dry shot when you need the extra. That should melt down an old 4.6 REAL quick, lol! You could always get a junkyard PI motor, upgrade to OBDII and throw a Kenne Bell on it. That's what I would've done to my '98 eventually. After driving my brother's F-150HD with a Kenne Bell, I decided that's exactly what mod motors need; a positive-discplacement blower.
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The 4.6 has a stroke slightly longer than the 351W. It produces good torque for its size. Any power adder will increase torque, and a smaller turbo will spool up in the proper torque range, esp if the cams are selected to match. The Vortech takes power from the engine to drive it, the turbo uses essentially wasted thermal expansion. Any mod is going to require
1] Money
2] Effort
Swapping the old belt-drive fan and fan shroud out for an electric fan, re-locating stuff on the insides of the fenders opens up room under the hood. Mustangs are crowded, yet turbo kits are stuffed into them on a daily basis. I might go with a centri blower after all, IF there are brackets that don't require major engineering of the accessory drive.
I know the NPI intake is going to be restrictive, but a PI head swap and boost don't mix, and the NPI cams focus more on low end torque.
The more I read, the more I wonder if a 5.4 3V and a turbo are the way to go.
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that's up to your budget and how nazi the emissions/safety testing is in your area. Also, for just seat of the pants driving, 3.55 to 4.10 gears really help move the beasts off the line. Speedometer driven gears (for the VSS) are available up to 3.73 gears without having to install other devices to correct the speedometer.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
Originally posted by gadget73... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.Originally posted by dmccaigOverhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.
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Oh, yeah, since I'm boosting for a lower rpm range, I may not need to increase the injector size, fuel pump, or MAF. The amount of air at low and mid-range increases, but doesn't exceed the WOT capability.
Then there's the fact that lower rpms will help the engine live longer.
Gotta stop playing with these graphs and numbers and go paint a bumper or two. Blackboard R&D ain't paying for no engine mods.
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Originally posted by sly View Postthat's up to your budget and how nazi the emissions/safety testing is in your area. Also, for just seat of the pants driving, 3.55 to 4.10 gears really help move the beasts off the line. Speedometer driven gears (for the VSS) are available up to 3.73 gears without having to install other devices to correct the speedometer.
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This thread seems like one of those completely unrealistic and unbearable, pipe dreams.
Rule #1 with mod motors, nothing is cheap. Built N/A 2Vs are a waste of time, since the money you spend on making it putout 400hp to the wheels is absurd, compared to pushrod engines. Forced induction is the only way.
Realistically, the work and time it would take to turbo a one of those cars is a waste of time, if you're going to keep the stock heads. You're looking for your car to tow things, it isn't a diesel truck, a turbo isn't going to do what you want. You need taller rear gears and heads. Plus you'll want cams that will work with what you want; low end torque.
Just because it's possible to slap a turbo on a car (With much fabrication, work and obscenities) doesn't mean that it's going to be what you want. Personally I think it's a waste of time to even try it on one of these cars, since there's nowhere to put the exhaust pipe (assuming the turbo is in the engine bay.) Then if you were to put the turbo under the car, or farther away from the intake; It'd make crazy amounts of lag and not really make huge improvements. Regardless, you're going to need a custom tune, most tuning shops would run and hide from someone boosting an NPI panther with a turbo.
You're stuck with what you've got, or you just buy a vehicle meant for what you're going to do. Or you can invest thousands into a car that won't be nearly worth your investment and will just be a huge pain in the ass along the way, especially fixing all the bugs.
If you're still dead-set on turboing it. Here's what my battle plan would be.
.) Get a 04+ donor motor, use an 03-04 harness, swap that all in.
.) Remove AC
.) Re-position your ABS block (I know I would've had to do that on my whale.)
.) Mount your turbo behind the grill and your downpipe behind the passenger side of the manifold (Where your AC shit once was.)
.) Get a custom tune and a shift kit.
.) Make your 1,500$ panther, worth 1,700$, with 4,000$ of labor/parts added to it.__________________________________________________
1985.03 Crown Vic. Coupe "CVGT" Build thread - china whirlybird, burnout machine.
The only 6 speed box on a late model frame.
Originally posted by SVT98tIt has air ride. I've disabled it since I've been jacking it up and down.
That is how you're supposed to jack it.
Up and down.
-ryan s.
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Originally posted by Bobcat View PostThis thread seems like one of those completely unrealistic and unbearable, pipe dreams.
Rule #1 with mod motors, nothing is cheap. Built N/A 2Vs are a waste of time, since the money you spend on making it putout 400hp to the wheels is absurd, compared to pushrod engines. Forced induction is the only way.
Realistically, the work and time it would take to turbo a one of those cars is a waste of time, if you're going to keep the stock heads. You're looking for your car to tow things, it isn't a diesel truck, a turbo isn't going to do what you want. You need taller rear gears and heads. Plus you'll want cams that will work with what you want; low end torque.
Just because it's possible to slap a turbo on a car (With much fabrication, work and obscenities) doesn't mean that it's going to be what you want. Personally I think it's a waste of time to even try it on one of these cars, since there's nowhere to put the exhaust pipe (assuming the turbo is in the engine bay.) Then if you were to put the turbo under the car, or farther away from the intake; It'd make crazy amounts of lag and not really make huge improvements. Regardless, you're going to need a custom tune, most tuning shops would run and hide from someone boosting an NPI panther with a turbo.
You're stuck with what you've got, or you just buy a vehicle meant for what you're going to do. Or you can invest thousands into a car that won't be nearly worth your investment and will just be a huge pain in the ass along the way, especially fixing all the bugs.
If you're still dead-set on turboing it. Here's what my battle plan would be.
.) Get a 04+ donor motor, use an 03-04 harness, swap that all in.
.) Remove AC
.) Re-position your ABS block (I know I would've had to do that on my whale.)
.) Mount your turbo behind the grill and your downpipe behind the passenger side of the manifold (Where your AC shit once was.)
.) Get a custom tune and a shift kit.
.) Make your 1,500$ panther, worth 1,700$, with 4,000$ of labor/parts added to it.
I never asked for 400 hp, or cheap, or easy. The cheap way to make a Panther fast is to start gutting and cutting. Get it below 3000 lbs, it's much faster. The easy way is to pay someone else [bye-bye cheap!] to gut it and cut it.
I am looking for 370 or higher torque, not horsepower. I thought [wild speculation on my part, I know] that getting the 4.6 up into 5.4 3v territory [~300hp; ~370 ft/lbs] was plausible. Adapting a Mustang turbo kit seemed a quick, reliable fix. Maybe I should just get the 5.4 3v? [I was scared off by the cam phaser failures]
I have two heavies, a 2003 5.4L E-350 and a 1979 7.3L E-350. I'm not trying to make the Merc haul like either of them.
I know about the NPI [intake, heads, cams] failings in regards to flow, but I was not aware that the 91-95 block and rotating assembly were weak. What, besides jack screws, changed from '95 up? Were the Windsor or Romeo engines better?
Given that I'm not married to turbocharging, do your arguments apply equally to centrifugal blowers? Keeping in mind that an NPI head swap and blower cannot work together.
As far as making the $1500 Panther worth something, I have reconditioned and repaired cars for resale for 20 years. I bought the Merc for me.
If I put a built 5.4 and 4r70W with newer electronics, I know I will have buried a bunch of time and money in it, but it will be the way I want it, and still cheaper than a Marauder.
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"You're stuck with what you've got, or you just buy a vehicle meant for what you're going to do. Or you can invest thousands into a car that won't be nearly worth your investment and will just be a huge pain in the ass along the way, especially fixing all the bugs."
A car I really wanted, once upon a time, was a 4.2 L Audi A6. Talk about expensive PIA!
Cars are never an investment grade expense, unless you can store something really special in a bunker for 20 years.
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If you wanna go fast for cheap, drop an LQ4 in it.
2011 Ford Ranger Sport 4.0 2wd - Magnaflow Axleback exhaust, K&N 63 Series CAI, DiabloSport 87 Octane tune, LEDs, 3000K LED projector fogs, 5000K Mini H1 projectors - Daily
1967 Ford Galaxie 500 Sedan "C-Code" - 289 2bbl/Cruise-O-Matic - Money pit/project
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Originally posted by 89TownCar View PostIf you wanna go fast for cheap, drop an LQ4 in it.2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP
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Originally posted by pantera77 View PostHonestly, this. I hate seeing LS's in everything as much as the next guy, but a JY 4.8/5.3 is impossible to beat dollar per performance ratio. Throw on an ebay turbo for extra fun. The power guys are getting out of the stock long blocks is ridiculous.
2011 Ford Ranger Sport 4.0 2wd - Magnaflow Axleback exhaust, K&N 63 Series CAI, DiabloSport 87 Octane tune, LEDs, 3000K LED projector fogs, 5000K Mini H1 projectors - Daily
1967 Ford Galaxie 500 Sedan "C-Code" - 289 2bbl/Cruise-O-Matic - Money pit/project
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Originally posted by C-Dave View Post
If I put a built 5.4 and 4r70W with newer electronics, I know I will have buried a bunch of time and money in it, but it will be the way I want it, and still cheaper than a Marauder.__________________________________________________
1985.03 Crown Vic. Coupe "CVGT" Build thread - china whirlybird, burnout machine.
The only 6 speed box on a late model frame.
Originally posted by SVT98tIt has air ride. I've disabled it since I've been jacking it up and down.
That is how you're supposed to jack it.
Up and down.
-ryan s.
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