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1987 mgm battery size, diagnosing and fixing no crank

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    #46
    EaOutlaw1969, your point is well taken. OTOH the collective knowledge about our cars reflected by the posters on this thread is probably greater than that of most general repair mechanics. After more than two days of trying, the shop's neighbor with the key to the lot hasn't shown up or returned calls, according to the owner. So I can see my car, but I can't touch it yet.
    1987 Grand Marquis LS two door, trying to get to the 60,000 mile mark.

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      #47
      If you do not have faith or trust in the technicians that will be diagnosing the car you need to find another shop, or take it somewhere where you can perform the suggestions given by the people trying to help you.
      2007 Ford Crown Victoria LX Sport

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        #48
        I wish you had a shop here. You would have customers lining up, down the street. Mechanics here love to charge for their "time" but just throw parts at the car. Many good parts end in the trash. I have caught them doing it numerous times. When it is not fixed or fixed wrong, they insist the customer pays for their "time" That is BS. The problem is, there is not a bureau of automotive repair in this State that does anything. The closest recourse is either via small claims court which issues a judgement. Good luck getting paid ! or via the State Police. They deal with the mechanic or shop when there is an bad accident and generally when a vehicle has just been inspected improperly. They pull the inspector's license for 6 months. Wow, big deal. Dealerships may stand by their work but the tech generally are trained on the newer vehicles. Our vehicles are older than the mechanics. In Maine,no one cares or wants to know how to fix our cars. Just junk them after 10 years. It is very hard to find someone who will show up for work. Someone who is also honest at a price that wont break the bank, I want to deal with that guy. I am giving my mechanic a gift card for Christmas !
        Last edited by Mainemantom; 12-07-2019, 06:21 PM.

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          #49
          battery stolen, exhaust broken

          The guy who knows the lock combination finally showed up, and after two more days, the tow truck fellow got the car back across the street to the shop front lot at about 9:40 am. Unfortunately the locked lot didn't deter the battery thief, so the brand new battery needs to be replaced. Also the exhaust was broken and drags on the street. It looks like the inputs to both cats are snapped off. So I'm thinking about replacing them with "test pipes." Has anyone tried this? I can tolerate a little v-8 rumble, but I don't want much for a street cruiser style car. Do I need the fake O2 signal senders to keep the check it light off?
          As of 2:30, a new battery hasn't shown up, so no fuel pump troubleshooting has been done, and no old gas has been pumped out.
          1987 Grand Marquis LS two door, trying to get to the 60,000 mile mark.

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            #50
            Upon closer inspection, the cats were stolen, so test pipes are now the plan. The battery finally arrived. It started with some gas in the intake, but no response from the fuel pump. Due to security concerns, and only Friday and Monday available, I incurred another tow charge and am ready for a 35% higher labor rate to try a facility in a slightly better neighborhood, but with a better fence, and cameras.
            1987 Grand Marquis LS two door, trying to get to the 60,000 mile mark.

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              #51
              With today's justified concern for the environment it is irresponsible and illegal both at the federal and state level to run a emissions controlled vehicle on the street without a cat.
              This being said a cat is the least of your concern and not needed for diagnostics. Just tie up the exhaust if needed for now.
              Get a accurate list of what is needed to get your car running.
              Once you have a list of what is needed to fix your car then decide what to spend the time and money on first.
              Sure you can run your car without cats with test pipes and other aftermarket parts to trick the computer into thinking cats are on the car still, but it will not run as designed or as well. going with at least a good used setup will keep your car quiet and you will be one less jerk out there screwing up our environment for the rest of us.
              2007 Ford Crown Victoria LX Sport

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                #52
                Round 3

                I'm back in town and finally got to see the tank and the rusty fuel pump. Shop #2 required $235 for their work on the fuel pump wiring, dropping the tank, and removing the remaining exhaust pieces. The electrical issue was removing a fusible link they say was improperly added to the circuitry.

                When I questioned the 95% to 100% markup over retail pricing on the new pump, tank, and gasket, plus the plan to reinstall the rusted fuel sender, they said they didn't like some one telling them how to do their job, as eaoutllaw predicted. So I ordered a Carter fuel pump, their preferred brand, a Ford filler neck grommet gasket seal, a Spectra tank, and a Herco sender. I finally inspected the removed gasket, e3ac-9072-aa, and it's slightly different from the ea1z-9072-b that fordpartsgiant listed and sent. Herco, from carid, shipped 4 ignition coils instead of the sender, so it's another delay before I learn if their part fits. The tank arrived with the box open, three bent corners, three bent sections on the perimeter joint of the halves, a dent or two on the sides, and lacking corner attachment bolt tabs. That being said, it might fit more or less, so avoiding more delay and return hassles might be worthwhile.
                Prospective mechanic #3 has a lead on a sender, so I should know tomorrow. Perhaps he'll think the tank and filler seal are close enough to install, or not. Towing for the sixth time since the car wouldn't start will probably happen tomorrow.
                1987 Grand Marquis LS two door, trying to get to the 60,000 mile mark.

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                  #53
                  I hate having to look for a decent mechanic. Sounds like you're running into all the reasons I tend to do a lot of my own work.

                  Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                  rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                  Originally posted by gadget73
                  ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                  Originally posted by dmccaig
                  Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

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                    #54
                    What a complete and utter cluster *!**
                    Correct me if I am wrong all this towing, replacing of parts etc on an engine that does not crank over? has not had a compression check?
                    This thread has dragged on so long I think it is time for an update on its current condition and what advice that you were given was done or not done yet.
                    BTW if your new tank and or parts does not look good enough to install just send it back and get another one ( what is the rush at this point? )
                    2007 Ford Crown Victoria LX Sport

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                      #55
                      As I wrote in post #41, at the end of the first round, the engine cranked after the fender starter relay was replaced. The second mechanic reported that the engine started with some gas put in the intake at the throttle body. Mechanic #3 is working a lead on sourcing the elusive fuel level sender. He also thinks he can get a tank quickly if the Spectra piece is too damaged to function. The aftermarket supplier, Herco, is shipping his sender after mistakenly sending coil packs. I'm in town for two more weeks. If the car isn't running, I'm not allowed to park it at the condo. The mechanics don't like it taking up their space waiting for parts. So, even if other efforts fail, and the rusty sender could be rebuilt, the turn around time of two or three weeks won't work. Can the sender be replaced at some later date without dropping the tank again? Thanks again for all the replies,
                      Last edited by jim; 01-11-2020, 02:36 PM. Reason: correction
                      1987 Grand Marquis LS two door, trying to get to the 60,000 mile mark.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        On an '87 the fuel level sender can be replaced without dropping the tank. It's mounted on the front of the tank toward the passenger side.

                        The fuel pump and hanger assembly, on the other hand, is mounted on the back of the tank with the trunk in the way so that one would require a tank drop.
                        Vic

                        ~ 1989 MGM LS Colony Park - Large Marge
                        ~ 1998 MGM LS - new DD
                        ~ 1991 MGM LS "The Scab"
                        ~ 1991 MGM GS "The Ice Car"

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                          #57
                          It runs.

                          After two more tows, plus about $1,300 more in parts, labor, shop supplies, and taxes, from two mechanics, it runs. It seems the fuel pump electrical stuff is more complicated than I thought. Mechanic #1 cut a black wire coming from the harness at the starter fender relay and left it hanging. Number 2 said that didn't matter, since it was a redundant engine computer ground, but some fuel pump relay wiring was improper, and thus required $98 of diagnosis and repair involving removal of a fusible link. Number 3 said the fuel pump wouldn't run without jumping the relay until the computer was replaced with a rebuilt one, for $158, plus labor. Number 3 charged me for 10 gallons of gas, and reports most of it was consumed during diagnosis and a test drive, which explains why the fuel gauge displays "E," and the low fuel light is on, when I first picked up the car. He insists the gauge was working during the test drive.

                          The parts I supplied were the Spectra tank, Carter pump, Herco sender, and Ford filler neck grommet seal, at a retail cost of about half of #2's quote. When I asked about the 100% parts markup, he declined installing any parts and charged me $235 for diagnosis (the third time I was told it needed a fuel pump), wiring repair, dropping the tank, and removing the remaining exhaust.

                          I concur with the description of this project as a "cluster f@ck."
                          Last edited by jim; 01-25-2020, 03:15 PM.
                          1987 Grand Marquis LS two door, trying to get to the 60,000 mile mark.

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                            #58
                            Die Hard 550CA battery finally died after almost 20 years.
                            Need a new battery

                            Thought I read someplace, maybe on one of David's postings about shaving part of the inner header panel?
                            Perhaps a more readily available battery with an adjustment of the battery pan,
                            sigpic
                            1987 Mercury Grand Marquis LS 2DR
                            302CID, K&N air filter, Dual cherrybomb glasspacks, Vogue tyres (Front:P225/60R16,,Rear:P235/60R16), Centerline Pulsar wheels (Front:7", Rear 8")
                            COBRA 25LTD CB with/ Wilson 500 whip antenna.

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                              #59
                              sounds to me like you've got some real hack mechanics in the area. Someone honest and competent would have had this running months ago for a lot less money. Unfortunately electrical stuff, even the dead-ass simple electrical stuff on these cars is beyond a lot of people.


                              there are no "redundant engine grounds". They all need to be hooked up.
                              86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                              5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                              91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                              1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                              Originally posted by phayzer5
                              I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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                                #60
                                I headed to Florida on 1-28-20, planning to return in March. But with the virus spreading, I stayed put until last week. The letter from the tow company was about losing the car for towing and a $36 daily storage. The condo deemed it dusty and thus abandoned and/or chronically neglected. So I returned and bailed it out for about $900. After sitting for a year it cranked and fired up on the second or third try, without a jump. I think the vibration on the 10 mile trip back to the condo is flat spotted tires. How much pressure and how many miles will fix it, or not?
                                1987 Grand Marquis LS two door, trying to get to the 60,000 mile mark.

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