Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hard running condition super stumped

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    It's over 100,000 miles and probably never rebuilt. Rings are kinda done, has bit of a knock, other parts of the engine are definitely in need of rebuild eventually. It's also always been oddly weak in the low end and then picked up at higher rpm which fits with stretched timing chain allowing retarded cam timing.

    85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
    160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
    waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

    06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

    Comment


      #32
      Being an 85, it may well have that shitty chain thats overdue for replacement anyway. Those things don't tend to make it much over 100k.

      Amusingly my boss just changed one of those on a '79 Chevy Impala with a 350. The cam gear was really bad, the plastic was worn down to the metal in a lot of spots. None of the teeth actually came off and the chain had not jumped at 250k miles, but he said it was incredibly sloppy and had been running shitty whenever he tried to get into the secondary. New chain fixed it, and he said it had better power than he could remember.
      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

      Originally posted by phayzer5
      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

      Comment


        #33
        I'll never forget my 82 LTC chain going south. It was 12 yrs old with 80,000 on it. This happened on the way back from school orientation on a 1.25 hour commute. I'm thinking damn, This thing needs to go 2.5hrs a day for the next 2 years or I'm screwed. First seemed to have no power after sitting at a light. Next light it started running real rough and wanted to shut off. A little longer DEAD. Towed it home and it had jumped at least 3 teeth from what I could see on that nylon looking hunk o junk. Not sure if that was the non-interference years or I just got lucky. Was up till 3am to swap it and had to be at work at 7am. Got quite drunk in the process too. Wish I was 25 again to pull off that shit like it's nothing. It never did let me down those 2 years and lasted after that till there was more rust then clean metal left to the body.
        sigpic
        89 LTC 429>557 Cobrajet stroker
        13 F-150 XLT 6.2 l
        "If I could separate what's real from what I've been dreaming I could live to fight another day"

        Comment


          #34
          Maybe you got lucky. I had a cam gear fall off and it didn't do anything to the motor, or so I thought. Some years later I found that the cam had slid back and cracked some of the lifters, but the pistons and heads are still perfectly fine. Still in the car, new cam and new lifters has it running a treat. It ran for years with the broken lifters, slowly grinding the cam away in the process.
          86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
          5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

          91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

          1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

          Originally posted by phayzer5
          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by lincolnlarry View Post
            I'll never forget my 82 LTC chain going south. It was 12 yrs old with 80,000 on it. This happened on the way back from school orientation on a 1.25 hour commute. I'm thinking damn, This thing needs to go 2.5hrs a day for the next 2 years or I'm screwed. First seemed to have no power after sitting at a light. Next light it started running real rough and wanted to shut off. A little longer DEAD. Towed it home and it had jumped at least 3 teeth from what I could see on that nylon looking hunk o junk. Not sure if that was the non-interference years or I just got lucky. Was up till 3am to swap it and had to be at work at 7am. Got quite drunk in the process too. Wish I was 25 again to pull off that shit like it's nothing. It never did let me down those 2 years and lasted after that till there was more rust then clean metal left to the body.
            Haha, that's a great story. Talk about pressure though. Had my life depended on that I would probably be dead.

            Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
            Maybe you got lucky. I had a cam gear fall off and it didn't do anything to the motor, or so I thought. Some years later I found that the cam had slid back and cracked some of the lifters, but the pistons and heads are still perfectly fine. Still in the car, new cam and new lifters has it running a treat. It ran for years with the broken lifters, slowly grinding the cam away in the process.
            You should've used that fangled high zinc content oil for it's antiwear properties
            1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
            1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

            Comment


              #36
              Finally got everything back together. New comp cams timing gear installed straight up. New oil. All ignition wiring double checked including firing order. Newish cap and rotor. All plugs checked and no dead cylinders obvious. Still does the same thing.

              Hard to crank, stops or almost stops rotation when a cylinder fires until you get lucky and I guess 2 catch and it starts. Will stay running but at a very low rpm. Will become unstartable if you give it what should be enough timing. Can get it to rev up up if you roll into the throttle but stumbles if you floor it. Misfires a lot and without any noticeable pattern. This is all in neutral.

              I keep thinking possible bent valves but you'd think if the valves were bent it wouldn't have the compression to make it hard to crank, and that the misfire would be from specific cylinders.

              85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
              160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
              waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

              06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

              Comment


                #37
                Any bad mechanical noise? Could have dropped a valve seat or two. Like you said though, compression wouldn't be as good. Hmmm

                Comment


                  #38
                  Honestly it already had a bearing noise so it's hard to tell.

                  85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                  160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                  waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                  06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Compression test would tell you. I'd expect bent pushrods and a lot more mechanical noises from the slop. Pull the valve covers and have a look. If you pull the rocker arms. you should see all the valve stems at pretty nearly the same height. Any that are obviously different would be suspect.

                    Was the old chain still lined up or no?


                    The random misfire is what gets me. I'd expect valve problems to be very regular misfires.

                    You're absolutely sure the distributor is in right? The halting on crank sounds like over-advanced timing if anything.


                    Any chance the balancer has spun and your timing marks are just BS?
                    Last edited by gadget73; 08-28-2016, 03:17 PM.
                    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                    Originally posted by phayzer5
                    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                      Compression test would tell you. I'd expect bent pushrods and a lot more mechanical noises from the slop. Pull the valve covers and have a look. If you pull the rocker arms. you should see all the valve stems at pretty nearly the same height. Any that are obviously different would be suspect.
                      Next stop compression test I guess. Rocker arms being pulled is easy enough.

                      Was the old chain still lined up or no?
                      I couldn't tell for sure due to the slack. It was close but there was enough slack either way to make it show way off.


                      The random misfire is what gets me. I'd expect valve problems to be very regular misfires.

                      You're absolutely sure the distributor is in right? The halting on crank sounds like over-advanced timing if anything.
                      Yeah I'm sure. And I'm yeah it's a random misfire, sounds like a really lumpy cam.

                      85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                      160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                      waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                      06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                      Comment


                        #41
                        something else to look at, confirm that 0 degrees matches up with TDC on #1. If the balancer spun by enough to really matter, it will not. If the balancer has been replaced, its possible that the marks are in the wrong place. For whatever reason Ferd did use multiple pointer locations and the scales change depending which you got. The fancypants aftermarket "race" ones sometimes have multiple sets of numbers on them for that reason.
                        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                        Originally posted by phayzer5
                        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                        Comment


                          #42
                          New balancer and I've checked that. It does indeed have multiple timing marks and I checked which was which before mounting. I also confirmed that the vacuum advance cannister on the distributor was pointed roughly where it was when this all started as a double check.

                          85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                          160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                          waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                          06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Does your spark look nice and blue or a weak yellow? The shaft in your distributor is tight? My Mind is boggled.

                            If all the above posts check out and you are certain timing is right, I would begin to suspect some of those nice new ignition components. Chinese duraspark stuff isn't the best. That or fuel/air (lean?) problems.
                            1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
                            1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

                            GMN Box Panther History
                            Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
                            Box Panther Production Numbers

                            Comment


                              #44
                              When you say shaft is tight what do you mean?
                              Last edited by johnunit; 08-28-2016, 06:16 PM.

                              85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                              160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                              waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                              06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Took a video to get an idea of what I've got.

                                Short version is it'll run ok at idle with reasonable timing (8+ degrees without vacuum advance, 30-40 with it plugged in) but will hesitate and be crappy even revving in neutral. Try to start it with that much advance and it'll fight the starter. Back it off to not even 0 degrees advance and it'll start, eventually, but idle low and roughly and hesitate even worse.

                                https://youtu.be/C67aTW-Nngs


                                85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                                160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                                waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                                06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X