TC 5.0L Questions

[SirFoxx]

Hello! I have a few questions regarding the 5.0L in my '86 land yacht (town car). I was referred over here from corral.net as they are more aimed towards mustangs where this part of the forum is aimed towards panther body cars.

I've been doing some research and have read that reasonable HP increases can be gained from swapping intake, TB, heads, etc.

First question--I bought an explorer 65mm TB for my car. Should I bore out my EGR or should I buy a premade one? I also looked at the sticky for the TB swap on this forum and the image links are broken. Could someone post the pictures and /or a link on to how to make the explorer TB work on the TC style motor?

What is a TV cable, and what does it do? I read that the shaft has to get ground off the explorer TB and the TC one tach'd back onto the explorer TB. What else needs to be done for the TB swap?

2nd--Will the GT40P heads bolt on, or will the valves smash into the pistons? I might be wrong, but I read that the lopo motors had flat top pistons, and have no valve clearance to accommodate for the gt40p valves. Would it be worth my while to get a set of GT40P heads, or should I go for the E7 heads?

3rd--What is this e303 cam from that I keep seeing in builds? Also, what is all entailed in a cam swap? If I ever do a cam swap in my town car, I will probably get one from a GT mustang or a mk VII along with the computer out of a MK VII so that I can retain my cruise control.

My overall goal is to make some extra HP to help the motor move my 4200lb land yacht over the rolling hills in my area. 150hp is pretty garbage IMO. I'm not aiming to make a car that burns tires and gets worse gas mileage. I'm really just looking to help the motor out by swapping the crap parts out with some decent ones.

[86VickyLX]

1. Get an explorer intake to go along with your explorer throttle body

Unnumbered question. The TV cable controls a valve inside the transmission to up the pressure when throttle is depressed to hold clutches tighter and prolong upshifts/command downshifts. Without this the trans will nuke itself pretty quickly. Take your throttle lever off of your stock throttle body and put it on your explorer piece. Yours is 86 specific, your cable end SLIDES forward to disconnect from the throttle body. DO NOT PRY IT OFF YOU WILL BREAK IT! You will also need a 1st gen lightning egr spacer or some custom work done to make an aftermarket one fit.

2. Yes they bolt on. They won't smash valves unless you have some ridiculous high lift cam. P heads require Lincoln Logs (1990 Towncar manifolds if you're keeping the stock exhaust) or ideally P headers, and fox h pipe and custom exhaust.

3. You should shop around for better cams. There are much better alternatives than the lopey cams they made in the 80s. Cruise control is stand alone on 86. Screw speed density! Go Mass air, you'll thank me later.

A cam swap with the engine in the car entails, pulling the intake, distributor, valve covers, rocker arms, pushrods and lifters, water pump, timing cover, timing chain, radiator, and moving the a/c condenser out of the way.

[87gtVIC]

Glad to see you made it.

86VickyLX has done all of this work already so he knows what he is talking about.

Just to elaborate some on what was mentioned...

He is suggesting the lightning egr spacer because it is matched for the 65mm throttle body already AND has the stock mounting provisions for the throttle cable bracket.

Cruise control on you 86 model is stand alone meaning there is a completely separate computer for its function. Swapping the main engine computer will not render it useless.

For best drive ability it is recommended to go mass air with the amount of work you are planning on doing. Just too much changes from stock for a Speed density set up to comprehend.

It is really easy to do it. It consists of moving a couple of pins and adding a couple of pins on the computers harness. I have a list that I will post up from my engine build on what needs to be swapped and where. http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...l=1#post771344

[gadget73]

Speed density works great, until you get away from a stock engine. Its just not real thrilled with life at that point. I suppose if you could find some means of tuning it, you could make it behave but there is not a great lot of support for it. The mass air is less bitchy overall, and there is a ton more support. I won't tell you its better, just that its easier to make it right.


Honestly, I'd give some serious thought to assembling an engine and swapping the whole thing in. I really think its less physically painful. I've done both on an 86 Towncar, and the head swap hurt me for days. The cam wasn't as bad, but it still wasn't a ton of fun. I haven't done heads and cam in one go, but I can imagine. Of course I've also done the engine complete twice now, so there is that for a frame of reference.

[SirFoxx]

Hmmmmm....I guess I didn't know swapping such parts required such an in-depth process to get everything to cooperate with each other. After asking here and seeing this info, I guess I need some advice.

I about to finish my college degree, and am currently working sh*t jobs in the meantime for small cash. Doing an entire engine build + swap isn't in my budget. Plus, being a 31 year old car, some of the seals have gone bad. During the moving process from michigan to kansas city, I blew the front pump seal on the transmission. On top of that, the rear main seal leaks, along with the evap core. The heater core has been bypassed, the defrost switch is bad, and I've got a vacuum leak somewhere in the inside of the car--everytime I accelerate, my A/C goes from blowing out the front vents to the defrost vents. Plus, a lot of the steel lines underneath are in bad shape from the michigan road salt.

Now I don't want to focus on all the negative points of the car, but most of them need to be addressed before I actually start doing intensive engine modification. Normally I would ask family members about this, but they all miss the point of what I would like to do. They either say it's not worth it, or there are plenty of other cars out there that can be modified. I like my lincoln because it is large, comfortable, and no one would expect a town car to have power.

This may be a bit to take in, but if you were in my shoes, what would you do? Keep it? Fix it + modify it? Sell it for something that gets better mpg?

I appreciate you guys taking time to read this and responding to my petty rambling.

[gadget73]

All of that is usually why I suggest a motor swap vs patching in place. It gives you an opportunity to fix all that stuff.

We get that nobody gets it. I think we've all gotten the "its not worth it", etc crap at some point.

Considering where you are asking, you're probably going to get "fix and modify", but I might toss in a "buy a daily beater first" suggestion. trying to daily drive your project car is a bad idea. If this is the only vehicle you have, I'd do nothing but maintenance and required repairs. Take the motor apart when it can sit for weeks and not matter. If its got serious rust problems though, maybe shop around for a better one. Rust blows. I own a former rust bucket, and most of the car isn't original anymore because of it.

Somewhere there are pics of my car when I got it. I'd wager that yours is in better shape than mine was. I've since fixed all of its problems, sometimes a couple times over, and had all the body problems fixed. Then different things happened and it needs some of it done over again, not the fault of the repairs, but thats a story for another time.

[His Royal Ghostliness]

If its got serious rust problems though, maybe shop around for a better one. Rust blows. I own a former rust bucket, and most of the car isn't original anymore because of it.

Listen to this guy! Basically get your car up on jackstands, crawl under there with a nice and bright flashlight, and start looking around - brake lines, fuel lines, FRAME (typically inboard corners against the exhaust near the pre-cats, also bottom of the frame rail under front doors, and frame rails again behind rear axle), floor pans in front of front seats, rear fender arches, rear quarter panel bottoms near the frame rails - all common locations for rust to develop, some cars have it much worse than others. Take care to distinguish surface rust from structurally-unsound rust that would require sections cut off and new pieces welded in. Do NOT mess with the brake and fuel lines in the process unless you're prepared to replace them now - if they are crusty they need very little disturbance to crack and then you'll have to fix them ASAP, whereas if you never touched them you could have easily gone well over a year.

What I'm getting at is that engine builds like the one you're considering are easy to do on a budget if you take your time, you can put one together over the course of several months and then just drop it in in a weekend and take care of all your power and reliability issues at once. But you really wanna make sure the particular car in question is actually worth it, as structural repairs and body work are anything but cheap if you have someone else do them...

[pantera77]

Take some pics of the underside.

[merc91]

Take a look at my post in the 'aftermarket cams for gt40p heads' post just below this 1 for answering a few questions you have here regarding those heads/cams/stock pistons. I bored my stock egr spacer to 66mm for the explorer tb and made sure the upper intake was 67mm atleast. Worked great. I have a 75mm now and at 85% throttle opened I am getting 98% maximum power just to show 65mm is plenty. Without porting 240 at the wheels/300fwhp is what a comp xe258 will yield with explorer heads/intakes/tb/headers on a stock box bottom end and duals running mass air as per reccomendation.

Mine is running 290 at the wheels 350fwhp now with ALL ford parts (unported p heads) other than the valve springs and comp xe258 makes the car fun. Fyi I get 25mpg cruising under 50mph and 20mpg cruising at 70... City we won't talk about lol. I have since went back to speed density with a stand alone megasquirt ecu and couldn't be happier with that.

Speed density is by far better but I don't know why people are all about mass air here? Lopey low vac cams maybe being outside what the stock tables can handle at idle? With a short duration any lift cam (xe258 included) I'de suspect it would be smooth sailing with speed density. It's .533/.544 lift but short duration, retard it 2+* and it works fine with stock pistons and idles like stock.

Good luck my man!

[gadget73]

They run horribly lean with speed density and P heads, and nobody knows why. I've seen it on multiple cars, including my own with ported E7 heads. I have a dyno chart somewhere with the AFR in the 18:1 range. It pinged and got shit fuel mileage, but there wasn't actually anything wrong. Lots of vacuum, better than 18" at idle. It just would not give enough fuel to go with the extra air. If it was tuned to work, it would be fine. Stock, it blows. Megasquirt is not a Mark VII ECM by a long shot, you can actually tune that to do what you need.

[merc91]

The oem tables must just be set in stone for map vs rpm with air temp correction specifically for the flow #'s of them motors at those points hey. I guess how the hell would sd be able to measure air flow lol.
Always wondered but never gave it thought.

[gadget73]

yeah, I think its just based on stock flow numbers with slight tweaking to the base tables for temperature and O2 feedback. Probably could be modified, but there doesn't seem to be a great lot of tuning support for Ford EEC-IV SD stuff. The mass air may not be ultimately better, but its better supported. Also, it tends to work without a lot of dicking about. Mine runs fine with a dead stock tune. It would be better with tuning and more injector, but I could daily drive the car without it giving me annoying running habits.

[SirFoxx]

So if I am understanding all of this correctly, if I swap my intake, TB, and heads to the GT40P heads, I will have to change from speed density to MAF? What if I swap to standard E7 heads (along with TB and intake)? Can I keep the SD setup?

As for rust, I had to already replace the entire pressure gas line and the brake line going from the distribution block to the rear diff. My frame and underside otherwise is mostly rust/rot free. There is some rust / rot on the wheel arches, but its not to extensive. A little sanding and bondo should fix it.

Also, lets say I go to a junkyard and find an explorer with a mostly intact motor. What signs should I look out for that would indicate a bad motor?

[DerekTheGreat]

So if I am understanding all of this correctly, if I swap my intake, TB, and heads to the GT40P heads, I will have to change from speed density to MAF? What if I swap to standard E7 heads (along with TB and intake)? Can I keep the SD setup?

I'm no expert here but I'm in the process of swapping my LoPo intake for a HiPo stuff and that's about all you want to do with stock stuff from what I've learned by asking and trolling around on here. I tried to do the explorer stuff and even got everything I'd need. Went to have the swap done and was refused by the shop. Then I was told I should've done the HO upper intake swap instead (even though I asked that question before starting.)

Based on what you've got going on with your engine & trans I recommend swapping out the engine & trans with ones from a Mark VII (88-92 with HO) or Mustang (87-93). Like gadget said you'll be able to address all the small things while you've got the donor engine on a stand before it goes in. On a side note, something tells me there are external differences between Townie transmissions vs Rustang & Mark VII transmissions, I know at least the governor inside is different but that's what people want as it has higher shift points. The external difference is the tailshaft, but don't quote me on that.

As for rust, I had to already replace the entire pressure gas line and the brake line going from the distribution block to the rear diff. My frame and underside otherwise is mostly rust/rot free. There is some rust / rot on the wheel arches, but its not to extensive. A little sanding and bondo should fix it.

Lets see pics. The way I feel is without seeing it first hand if you've had to replace brake/fuel lines it's probably a pretty crusty critter. Paint systems/coatings have a finite life, once they've started to rot they tend to disintegrate fast. Sanding & bondo do not fix anything as nothing beats the factory pretreatment & topcoat application. Bondo simply helps trap the moisture and the rot will just come back in a hurry. You may get more time out of it if the car doesn't see much moisture or salt-infused moisture.

Also, lets say I go to a junkyard and find an explorer with a mostly intact motor. What signs should I look out for that would indicate a bad motor?

IMO I like to first look the engine over to see if it looks relatively clean or unmodified. If it's got rats nest of wiring, actual rats nests or aftermarket shit on it those typically aren't good starting points. Then I like to see the dipstick, if the oil looks contaminated I'd walk away. Black is Ok as that will probably be typical but you could always pop a valve cover to look for sludge. Then look under the oil fill cap for 'pudding' or gross looking snot which would indicate water in the oil. You might also see the same/similar thing on the dipstick. Pop the radiator cap & have a look in that & the overflow tank, should be a shade of green if it was maintained somewhat. Black rusty shit would probably indicate an engine that's been overheated & stuff, I wouldn't chance that. Then pop the intake tube off and look around the throttle blade. Should be pretty clean with no oil hanging around in it. Lastly you could pull the plugs to get a better idea of how well it's been running. Fresh plugs & wires on a junkyard car that hasn't been wrecked is probably a bad sign. Then you could also get a socket on the bell housing & spin the motor over 360 degrees. If all is well it should spin over fine with no binding or hang-ups. My

[86VickyLX]

1) So if I am understanding all of this correctly, if I swap my intake, TB, and heads to the GT40P heads, I will have to change from speed density to MAF? What if I swap to standard E7 heads (along with TB and intake)? Can I keep the SD setup?

2) As for rust, I had to already replace the entire pressure gas line and the brake line going from the distribution block to the rear diff. My frame and underside otherwise is mostly rust/rot free. There is some rust / rot on the wheel arches, but its not to extensive. A little sanding and bondo should fix it.

3) Also, lets say I go to a junkyard and find an explorer with a mostly intact motor. What signs should I look out for that would indicate a bad motor?

1) It may run fine with speed density, it may not. hit or miss with every car. I've swapped 3 explorer motors in 3 panthers personally. Mine, Matt's, and his friend John's. Mine ran crappy (mine was because of a o2 sensor wiring debacle). Matt's runs fine. John's runs like crap. If you have the chance to put something better than E7s on, do it.

2) The only way to fix rust is to cut it out. Sanding and bondo isn't gonna cut it if you're planning on keeping this car for a long time. If the frame is good and the car isn't rotting out under you. Then I'd fix it.

3) A good way to check is to see if the engine is good is if it rotates. The problem with checking the oil/coolant, is that in most yards, those have been drained already. Also, a good indication that the motor is ok is if the vehicle was in an accident. If there's an explorer that's completely intact there's a higher chance that there's something wrong with the powertrain. Not necessarily the engine, but just be wary. Sometimes you can find explorers in the running section of the yard, where you can hear the engine run before you buy it. Regardless of condition, I would have the heads sent out and checked for warpage, valve guides and replace and upgrade the valve springs and seals the stock explorer valve springs are kinda floaty. Or so I've been told.