Suspension Questions?

[Whosondephone]

Hey everybody! I'm almost finished overhauling the suspension system. So far I have replaced the rear springs/shocks. Years ago I replaced pitman/idler arm and inner and outer tie rod ends. Now I'm finally in the process of replacing the ball joints. All MOOG.

I have a large Beef with the MOOG idler arm. When installing it I noticed that it didn't line up with the original idler arm on the x, y, and z axes. MOOG left a note to the tune of "this part may be different from the part your replacing but that's OK." I remember having to bend the cross rod in order to connect it to the idler arm. I believe this messes with the searing angles at lest minimally. What do you all think? I went with it because it appeared more durable and had grease fittings. Although the original one was nice and tight. I'm afraid I tossed it.

My second Question is about the rubber. I was surprised to find that the suspension pieces were rubbery/stationary almost fixed and didn't slide freely. I am amazed that all the rubber seems to have survived 30 years. I can not find free play or clunking pieces anywhere. However I have noticed the rubber in the upper control arms breaking down. Can I condition it somehow?

I filled my trunk with staleness steel plates one day which lowered my rear ride height. My parts gave me MOOG part number CC819 as shown here. After testing them out I had to put the old springs back in. I was loosing control of the vehicle on dips around turns. It was great with small bumps and pot holes. However with dips in the road I felt like they would compound each other and I was bouncing off the road. I just got my (Part Number: 8795) exchange today.

For shocks they store game me Monrow. There wasn't anything wrong with the installed KYB-Excel shocks that I could tell. I suspect they are better. I noticed that the KYB were noticeably more stiff than Monrow. Unfortunately I heavily bent the rod housing while removing them.

I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'm excited about the new ball joints. Been wanting to change them for five years now. I tried grinding down the rivets on the upper and couldn't tap them out(down). I'll try drilling tomorrow. I'm a bit nervous about that because It's hard to see where the rivets were after grinding the shit out of them. That plate that the rivets are in is the old ball joint right? That is supposed to come out? That's not the control arm I was warned not to grind down.

I was searching the forum and someone mentioned they linked to a guide on ball joints in their signature. However there was none

[His Royal Ghostliness]

I've driven the CC819s, never had any issues with them. Thing is they are stiffer than factory coils. In general stiffer springs need heavier-valved shocks to tame them. What you describe sure sounds to me like too much spring for the shock, or too little shock for the spring. If you used the CC819s with the Monroes and that's when you were about to lose it, I suspect they would have played quite nice with the stiffer KYBs you removed. Gotta ask tho, why were you fucking with the KYBs if there was nothing wrong with them? They only need 2" forward swing to get off the rear axle studs, the rubber bushings up top accommodate that no problem, hell even poly pucks have that much give in them...

The ball joints, yes the rivets go thru the ball joint, and that should be what you ground into. drilling them will be a mother, try pounding a wedge between the ball joint body and the control arm, that should put enough tension on the rivets to pull them thru the ball joint plate. You can also generously heat the ball joint plate where the rivets live, like glowing orange generously, that will make things easier to move however watch of for sizzling grease squirting out from under the rubber boot.

Idler arm, well side to side it turns so no big deal, but the fore-aft and up-down not matching is concerning. I'd say go to a store and look at a non-Moog idler arm, pay attention to the arm's fore-aft length and obviously the height from the top mounting bolt hole to the surface where the center link bolts to. Keep in mind shit gets misboxed all the time, so for all you know you may be running something intended for a Dodge pickup truck but simply put into the wrong box or with the wrong label affixed. In my experience the proper Moog arms work just fine, think I did one of those two months ago actually and it fit just like the factory one did...

Bushings, nice try, but no, there is no way to condition them. The only conditioning they need at this point is in the form of an open flame to burn the rubber out, then replace them with polyurethane. Or if you want rubber you get to press the old ones out and press the new ones in, have fun with that job

[Whosondephone]

I realize I should not have messed with the shocks. I fell for the propaganda that they should be changed every 50,000. I figured it would be easy to change with the springs removed.

[gadget73]

The taller springs can run out of shock travel, which is why they get stupid at times. There is some F150 application that has taller rear shocks, and I think Fox body rear shocks also give more travel. The stock design doesn't put the piston of the shock at mid-travel at ride height.

[Whosondephone]

I'm flying by the seat of my pants here. At first I incorrectly set the torque wrench and striped two of the 1/4" bolts. I was confused. It goes from 120 to 240 inch pounds with ten marks on the handle. I now realize that each mark has a value of 12. If memory serves, with my current understanding I torqued the bolts exactly to 168 in. lbs. The maximum range. Although they felt very similar to the bolts I over-torqued.

But on a lighter note the car is handling much better. No more chuckling. I'm looking forward to some new tires and an alignment after I track down some new hardware.

I finally have a place to hang my lamp when working in the wheel well.

[His Royal Ghostliness]

The taller springs can run out of shock travel, which is why they get stupid at times. There is some F150 application that has taller rear shocks, and I think Fox body rear shocks also give more travel. The stock design doesn't put the piston of the shock at mid-travel at ride height.

Think it was the '97-up F150 rears that are longer. Interesting idea on the Fox shocks tho, tho I'd imagine Lincoln Mk7 may be even better as it is a heavier car and the air ride generally needs more damping to begin with. Tim is coming up in a week or so for a full axle rebuild so I'll measure them up then, barring that your car still needs the rear brakes fixed before I jet for who knows how long so that will also be a good source of numbers.

I'm flying by the seat of my pants here. At first I incorrectly set the torque wrench and striped two of the 1/4" bolts. I was confused. It goes from 120 to 240 inch pounds with ten marks on the handle. I now realize that each mark has a value of 12. If memory serves, with my current understanding I torqued the bolts exactly to 168 in. lbs. The maximum range. Although they felt very similar to the bolts I over-torqued.

Bit confuse here, which bolts did you strip? By the torque number I'm guessing 1/4-28 bolts, which would be the ones for the upper ball joint, right? Yeah those are easy to overtorque, but really any bolt is easy for a gorilla like me, I can shear 1/2 Grade-8 with just a ratchet But yeah nothing wrong with running the bolts at the high torque limit, they're designed to handle it and some application do require it. They are still half a turn away from snapping tho, which is why they felt similar to the ones you broke - with small bolts like that it's very hard to tell when they're about to let go. Now on the other hand something like the bolts holding my rear springs, them are 3/4-16 Grade-8, if that were a factory application for them I'd be torquing them to 320lbs-ft but for my needs they are overkill and so I put them at 250 (where the torque wrench maxes out) - lemme tell ya, between 220 and 250 every 10 lbs-ft difference is practically impossible to not feel as long as you're not using a cheater pipe. And to put things into even better perspective - my rear axle pinion calls for 450-600 lbs-ft torque on the nut

[gadget73]

I put in the last set of bolt-in upper ball joints on something using nothing more than a 1/4" ratchet and a wrench to back it up. Its a little bolt, it doesn't need to be much more than snugged with those self-locking nuts.

[His Royal Ghostliness]

That's how I do them as well, it's a small bolt so it needs small tools or bad things happen.

[sly]

The hardest part is grinding out the original rivets. Next time, I'm just replacing the damn control arms.

[gadget73]

Air chisel makes short work of them. Cut the heads right off, takes less than a minute per rivet if you can hold the thing where it needs to go. It beats the piss out of the ball joint, but you're changing it so who cares.

[sly]

yeah... I don't have one of those.

[His Royal Ghostliness]

Harbor Freight is your friend there

[sly]

Harbor Freight is your friend there

yeah... just haven't "pulled the trigger" yet.

[gadget73]

Wear ear plugs when you do. Sumbitches are loud.

[sly]

Wear ear plugs when you do. Sumbitches are loud.

No lie.