Need gear info for 5spd 351 build ;)

[marquis_82_withneons]

Alrighty friends.. time has come to find out... what is the magical ratio for my project. Looking to daily the car in the summers so nothing too crazy. From what I've gathered on my own I'm thinking something 3.73 ish? Does that sound right?.

Like I said I'm going for daily drivability, and want to keep SOME kind of mileage. I don't want highway gears but don't want super city gears either. I'm sure more info is needed so please ask. Thanks guys

[gadget73]

3.55 or 3.73 is generally a pretty good compromise between drag strip and long haul highway runner. What are the trans gear ratios and what size tires? From that its fairly easy to figure rpm at a given speed and gear to see if its reasonable for your needs. Depending on the overdrive ratio, you might actually be able to run 4.11 without it screaming on the highway.

[marquis_82_withneons]

Trans is also qestionable. I always thought the t5 was the end all be all for swapping in our cars but I found on other forums they were using a t-5"something". The truck 5spd. Haven't decided yet so that will be a factor.

As for tires I should be running 245ish 60 r16

[pantera77]

Trans is also qestionable. I always thought the t5 was the end all be all for swapping in our cars but I found on other forums they were using a t-5"something" The truck 5spd.

t5's are complete garbage.

We use them because they are cheap, plentiful, and easy to make work.
With that said, I can't think of a single person who's done a t5 swap on a box panther that's hasn't blown up the trans, rearend, or both.

You definitely don't want a m50d of a zf5
Those are truck trans and drive as such.

[gadget73]

T5's are fine if you drive things like I do most of the time. If you plan to put your foot into it a lot or shift it hard, its not going to hold up.

Tremec T56 might be what you're thinking of. They're rather more skookum than the standard old T5. Truck transmissions suck ass if you want any sort of performance. The gearing is usually not so favorable, and the throw and general shift feel is not at all what you want in something you intend to feel even the least bit sporty.

[marquis_82_withneons]

Define cheap and plentiful?

[gadget73]

compare prices and availability on a used T5 out of a Mustang vs basically anything else, and thats your definition.

[His Royal Ghostliness]

You definitely don't want a m50d of a zf5
Those are truck trans and drive as such.

Funny you should mention that, as ever since I had the chance to drive a ZF with the close-ratio diesel gearset swapped into a gasser housing and installed behind a big block I always thought that combo would be pretty sweet for a Panther, with a 429 tho not a 460 pig But yeah, the ZF in its standard form shifts slow and would probably drive most people up a tree. The M5OD is a somewhat faster shifter so that actually may not be too bad behind a 302, I wonder how its power handling capability compares to that of the T5 tho - if it's stronger then for people who want a 5-spd just for the sake of it (instead of for chasing super-performance) the M5 may be a decent choice since it can be found behind every 302 and 300 in a F150 application...

Then again I don't mind if the manual trans can't shift in a split second, if I was hellbent on that the properly adjusted slushbox will always accomplish it better than any reasonably-priced stick-shift.

[marquis_82_withneons]

I wonder how its power handling capability compares to that of the T5 tho - if it's stronger then for people who want a 5-spd just for the sake of it (instead of for chasing super-performance) the M5 may be a decent choice since it can be found behind every 302 and 300 in a F150 application...

this... the M5 is what i was thinking of. i too am not worried about speed shifting, i just want longevity. or the best i can get anyway. i originally questioned if it would work because those manual f150s are a hair more common than the t5 and cheaper around my area.

BTW im doing a 351 swap, not a 302

[Tiggie]

M5OD-r2 in a Panther is uncharted territory as far as I know. I am guessing because it's not much/any stronger than a T5. You won't want 4.10's unless you are looking for a granny gear. 3.55 or less would be good with it. It also has a 0.80 OD which with 3.55 will more rpm than a stock 2.73 AOD in drive. You'll want to double check those ratios - I'm going off the ranger application because that's in my brain. 3.27 or 3.08 would be preferred in my book. Then you get a usable first gear and aren't running 3500rpm at 75mph.

Some Ranger people use them when swapping to a 5.0/5-speed. Shifter is in a much more favorable position than a t5 which is basically at your hip in those trucks. You'll need to do some measuring on the shifter location. The 4.9/5.0 comes out pretty far forward. The 4.2 m5od from an f150 is farther back in terms of shifter location. That's the one most ranger swaps use.

You also want to see if it will fit in your trans tunnel. It fits rangers but there is some persuasion needed with a sledge hammer.

[marquis_82_withneons]

What makes the t5 so weak in our cars? Is it just the weight of a box that does it? I've always been led to believe the t5 is one of the best. Or is that just in reference to foxes?

[pantera77]

What makes the t5 so weak in our cars? Is it just the weight of a box that does it? I've always been led to believe the t5 is one of the best. Or is that just in reference to foxes?

They've never been strong to begin with. Hell, GM wouldn't even put one behind a measly TBI 350 because their so weak.

[His Royal Ghostliness]

M5OD-r2 in a Panther is uncharted territory as far as I know. I am guessing because it's not much/any stronger than a T5.

I'm not sure about it being on the same lever as the T5, if that were the case we'd be having T5s in the fullsize trucks, not M5s. Heck even just looking at its dimensions it's a significantly larger transmission than the T5, all that bulk has to account for somewhat better strength inside.

I'm thinking some folks who 5spd-swap aren't very familiar with truck transmissions, and just ride the wave of using Mustang parts like we use in other places on these cars. The other issue is, as you mentioned, the placement of the shift lever - don't really feel like measuring that stuff again right now, but IIRC last time I did it ended up with the shifter having to come out very close to the dash, which would require some creative bending of the shifter stalk, which in case of the M5 is impossible without sacrificing the rubber damper at the bottom. I'm running a NP435-style solid shifter on a ZF that's supposed to have the rubber damper, yeah that thing high-frequency vibrates quite a bit and makes all sorts of interesting noises. In a Panther the shifter will be shorter so less likely to ring (Also helps with the throw distance) but still it's not going to be super-quiet.

[gadget73]

The shift forks in the T5 break if you jam them through the gears, especially if you aren't using a shifter with stops on it. The synchros also aren't the best, so they're prone to becoming a non-synchro transmission if you wail on it. There is also something about one of the gears being not so strong, and its prone to losing teeth in higher power applications. There are some rebuild kits for them that supposedly provide stronger parts in various places to make them less prone to breakage. Thats true of pretty much any stock part though, someone has a magical bit to fix whatever weakness the factory parts left. How effective it is, NFC. Never messed with a T5.

They can last, but if you beat the piss out of them, especially with a lot of power in a heavy car, it will grenade. Talk to Bobcat about how they hold up in a Vic with a 351.

[marquis_82_withneons]

the way the words are playing out here it looks to me that the answers i seek are within an M5. im gonna need every bit of strength i can get. im not looking to build a racecar here but im shooting for the neighborhood of 300-350 out of the 351. so ill take a stab and say that t5 probably isnt gonna hold too long with that configuration.