Need gear info for 5spd 351 build ;)

[His Royal Ghostliness]

300-350 at the wheels? Gonna need a ZF for that, not an M5. The small-block version of the ZF is wide-ratio with 5.72 first gear, that will shit slower than any T5. The close-ratio diesel gears may swap, but you'll need to do that reusing the small-block shafts, for which you'll need to completely tear down the transmission internals - the cheater way of swapping gears and shafts together as a full matched set only works with big-block transmissions as they have the same input shaft as the diesel ones.

Don't take me wrong, you can certainly try a M5, as they are cheap and plentiful enough. But people have been killing them with 200hp engines ever since they came out, true that's mostly cause they overload the truck and then beat on it, but you'll be replacing the payload with engine power, as far as the driveline is concerned the two have similar effects on it.

[marquis_82_withneons]

i could be off on my numbers, but my idea was, im starting with a base of 200ish with the stock presmog motor. im having head work done, using a streetable roller cam, street intake and a basic 4bbl. for exhaust i got bbk shorties, and plan to run header back 2.5" duals with borla. so im estimating about 300ish

[gadget73]

I'm thinking a TKO is what you want here. They're designed as a high performance T5 replacement.

[marquis_82_withneons]

yea but what is the price tag.

[gadget73]

Shop used, you can probably find one reasonable. Honestly these days I've quit with trying to be overly cheap. In the long run you'll end up spending what the proper item would have cost, and you still won't actually have it. These are also the reasons I still run an AOD.

[His Royal Ghostliness]

Oh, so 300 at the crank, that's different than the 300 at the wheels I thought of at first. Yeah honestly idk, like I said I ain't never seen a M5 behind a 351 even in a halfton truck, that means they're either rare or they don't exist for a good reason. But again your car is good 1000lbs lighter than the trucks, and given that said trucks are typically rated at like 6k GVW or more at the very least where's you're at 4500 or less, maybe the less weight being moved around will compensate for the increased power... Idk, worth a shot I guess, especially given the other cheap and plentiful option (the T5).

But yeah, in the end a beefy TKO is what you should be running IMHO. Tho there is the whole price issue... Like Gadget said, start shopping, have money on hand and be ready to pounce as soon as you spot one.

[Grand Marquis GT]

It's expensive, but I have the TKO in GMGT.

It's not too terrible of a swap, and I have learned a lot of the unique stuff that has to be done in order to make it work compared to a T5. Plus, I don't have to worry about grenading my trans!

[marquis_82_withneons]

What the difference between them?. Structurally I mean. Bewltweeb the tko and a t5. Mount points? Shifter location? Is it hydro or cable clutch?

[Grand Marquis GT]

Shifter location is the same, and my AOD trans mount and location bolted right up. I opted to cut my crossmember to clear the ribbing on the tailshaft, but a lot of the cobra guys cut the webbing. I might do that, we'll see.

And as far as a clutch goes, you can have whatever you want. I'd go cable if I had to do it all over again. My juice clutch is very cool but it was expensive and required a lot more tweaking.

[gadget73]

Trouble with a cable clutch is you have to reinforce the firewall where the cable mounts. Its not strong enough on it's own.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Trouble with a cable clutch is you have to reinforce the firewall where the cable mounts. Its not strong enough on it's own.

The problem is, noone seems to do that.

My setup actually has that reinforcing plate, so it won't push though. Pretty cool setup, just expensive.

[gadget73]

yeah, its just one of the many details that need to be considered when putting a manual in a car that never came with one. Nothing built on this platform ever came with one either, so its all fabricobbled from various other applications to make it go.

[knucklehead0202]

T5 is a much smoother-shifting trans than the offerings from Tremec, etc., but definitely has limitations. If you can, score an Astro a-5 or a g-force. If you buy it new it'll cost as much as a TKO but if you can snag a used one cheaper you get the best of both worlds. Far as rear gears go, i'd do 3.73's. In a lighter car 3.55 is a good gear choice but with the extra weight of a panther, i'd do 3.73. You won't be screaming on the highway and it'll be good out of the hole too.

[marquis_82_withneons]

ok so a quick search got me $2000 transmissions... thats more than i paid for the car.. so my initial thought was.. nope. but after more searches ive found (the way the graph worded it) that the tko was in cars from factory?

[knucklehead0202]

TKO was not in any factory car I know of. T5z was in some of the later fox mustangs and is slightly better than the average t5. Geforce and Astro are aftermarket companies that build tougher T5's, and one of them even makes their own case that's much stronger. Tremec is a different animal altogether, much stronger but not as smooth. You can also find an old Tremec tr-3550 for cheap, but even less smooth than the newer TKO, albeit cheaper. Or you can just get an AOD built and not worry about it.