Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

My 1987 Mercury Colony Park

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
    depends what was done with the speaker wiring. If it had premium sound the wires run from radio to amp and then to the speakers. With no amp you'll have to make sure the signal gets from radio to speakers at least. Also depends if it was a 2 or 4 channel rig. 4 channel runs all speakers through the amp, 2 channel is just the front speakers. If you can lay your hands on the proper amp it should sound slightly better than without it, but its still not all that impressive even with it. If you feed that radio through a better amp it will give better results, even if its just a fairly ho-hum amp with speaker level inputs.
    From what I can tell the “installer”, maybe hack would be more appropriate, cut out essentially all of the stock radio speaker harness and ran wire from the radio to all of the speakers, only leaving a stub of factory wire that had the speaker connector on it. The dash and door speakers were tied together for the L/R front setup.


    My Cars:
    -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
    -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

    Comment


      Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
      depends what was done with the speaker wiring. If it had premium sound the wires run from radio to amp and then to the speakers. With no amp you'll have to make sure the signal gets from radio to speakers at least. Also depends if it was a 2 or 4 channel rig. 4 channel runs all speakers through the amp, 2 channel is just the front speakers. If you can lay your hands on the proper amp it should sound slightly better than without it, but its still not all that impressive even with it. If you feed that radio through a better amp it will give better results, even if its just a fairly ho-hum amp with speaker level inputs.
      Am I understanding correctly...you are saying one can use the radio in question or even the more normal models (that from factory worked with a ford amplifier) and feed an aftermarket amp the speaker level inputs then out of that same after market amp to your respective speakers? I think this is what you are saying but I am not well versed in all of this audio stuff yet.

      If this is the case I am perplexed by this here:

      Same guts as the tape deck radio, just obviously without the tape mechanism.

      O/lg hash - left front +
      b/w hash = LF - and RF +
      W/LG hash - RF -
      pk/lg stripe - LR+
      pk/lb dot - LR -
      lb stripe - RR +
      dg/o dot RR -


      inputs to the tone board are the white and orange wire from the mute board. Right is white, left is orange.

      on the power connector
      yellow/black - ignition +
      gn/y - batt +
      o/bl dot - premium sound amp (hot when radio is on)
      bl/r - dash lights
      You are saying the b/w hash is the left front- as well as the rf +
      this hurts my head unless its ran in series or something..still confused. on how to properly get signals back to an amplifier.

      I have a want to go back to a factory radio..the factory wiring and amp even are definitely no longer there..Using a factory radio and then feeding an aftermarket amplifier the speaker ins out of the radio and then the amps out to the speaker may be my ticket to a factory looking radio again.
      Last edited by 87gtVIC; 10-03-2020, 06:08 PM.
      ~David~

      My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
      My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

      Originally posted by ootdega
      My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

      Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
      But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

      Originally posted by gadget73
      my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




      Comment


        Originally posted by Kodachrome Wolf View Post
        From what I can tell the “installer”, maybe hack would be more appropriate, cut out essentially all of the stock radio speaker harness and ran wire from the radio to all of the speakers, only leaving a stub of factory wire that had the speaker connector on it. The dash and door speakers were tied together for the L/R front setup.
        dash and door speakers tie together in the front so thats normal.

        Originally posted by 87gtVIC View Post
        Am I understanding correctly...you are saying one can use the radio in question or even the more normal models (that from factory worked with a ford amplifier) and feed an aftermarket amp the speaker level inputs then out of that same after market amp to your respective speakers? I think this is what you are saying but I am not well versed in all of this audio stuff yet.
        Yes. All the radios except the JBL ones can drive speakers directly. Some of them also have an amp in the mix, but its not required. The only difference is the systems that have an amp feed from radio to amp, and from amp to speaker rather than just radio to speaker. You should be able to feed to an aftermarket amp rather than a factory amp if you want, though I guess there might be a question about whether that single wire that is shared between the two front speakers might cause an issue. I doubt it would but I've never actually tried it.


        If this is the case I am perplexed by this here:



        You are saying the b/w hash is the left front- as well as the rf +
        this hurts my head unless its ran in series or something..still confused. on how to properly get signals back to an amplifier.

        I have a want to go back to a factory radio..the factory wiring and amp even are definitely no longer there..Using a factory radio and then feeding an aftermarket amplifier the speaker ins out of the radio and then the amps out to the speaker may be my ticket to a factory looking radio again.
        Thats how the radio service manual indicates it, though I suppose it might just be drawn that way for convenience, and its really a shared - for both front speakers.

        The JBL amps actually do work that way. Half of the speaker + connections actually tie to circuit ground, the other half has the speaker - tied to circuit ground. Entirely possible the radios and premium amps do too but I've never really dug too deep into it. Basically its a phase thing, and the easy way of fixing it was to just invert the wiring.

        I'm kinda digging the stock radio gig again myself, but I might use a slightly later one, or just mod it for proper RCA outputs. The 4 button JBL radio does actually have line level out, just uses one of two different odd connectors. The other option is a speaker to line level converter. That just knocks down the signal level with a couple resistors. Exactly how the factory premium sound amps did it, and how aftermarket amps with speaker level jacks do it.
        Last edited by gadget73; 10-03-2020, 08:27 PM.
        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

        Originally posted by phayzer5
        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

        Comment


          They also make processors to take the speaker level down to line level with some adjustments for a cleaner output.
          2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum (Ice White / Blonde)
          2022 Ram 1500 4x4 5.7 Etorque, Built to Serve Edition, (Granite Crystal / Black)
          Past Panthers
          1989 Grand Marquis LS (Cabernet/Grey), 1989 Lincoln Town Car SS (White/Blue), 2004 Mercury Grand Marquis Ultimate (White/Black)

          Originally posted by Lincolnmania
          if its got tits or tires it's bound to give you trouble

          Comment


            In case you were curious about the originally specified amps in 1987. I have 86, 87, and 92 radio service manuals if you ever actually need schematics for this nonsense.
            Attached Files
            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

            Originally posted by phayzer5
            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

            Comment


              Originally posted by tjc78 View Post
              They also make processors to take the speaker level down to line level with some adjustments for a cleaner output.
              Yes I have one picked out already. It will actually make the install super easy as well as that gives me rca outs which I am currently using to feed the amp for the speakers (front and rear) as well as the sub. Would uck it under the passenger side dash somewhere. Gotta test my jy picked radio first. I am really intrigued about this and really love a factory looking radio.

              Sorry for the thread jack. Quick thoughts I had to get out of my noggin.
              ~David~

              My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
              My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

              Originally posted by ootdega
              My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

              Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
              But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

              Originally posted by gadget73
              my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




              Comment


                sort of continuing on this topic though, there is a variant of this type of radio meant to pair with an EQ in the Aerostar. That one isn't specifically useful, but the changes made to the amplifier board are. Looks like changing 4 resistors would convert it effectively from speaker level output to line level. Its just a simple matter of reducing the gain on the amp chips. That could be easily turned into 4 RCA outputs. Getting a non-faded output would be slightly more difficult but perhaps not impossible. I have an extra one of these, maybe its time to experiment with it some.
                86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                Originally posted by phayzer5
                I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                Comment


                  I've seen that + -/+ - 3 wire setup elsewhere. IIRC, It essentially runs one side on the low side of an op-amp and the other channel on the high side. Not great for sound reproduction, but decreases component count and saves on production costs. It may even be cheaper than the common ground setup as it would require one less op-amp to drive 4 channels. I would consider this a "joint stereo" setup as it's unable to completely separate the channels.

                  Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                  rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                  Originally posted by gadget73
                  ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                  Originally posted by dmccaig
                  Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                  Comment


                    The white/black does actually go to circuit ground, its not floating. Looking further at it, the inputs used are non-inverting so it may just be drawn stupidly. There are 3 chips used, all identical, all 2 channel, only difference is the rear speakers use both sides of it to sneak more power output. Cheating way of doing it too, output of section 1 is fed back to the inverting input for section 2 through a resistor divider network.



                    Since thats the case, I think it would be easy to re-wire things slightly for all 4 channels to have the same output level using one side of the output amp like the front channels are. The un-used halves of the rear channel amps could be repurposed into a buffer for a non-faded output to drive a sub at that point.
                    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                    Originally posted by phayzer5
                    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                      The white/black does actually go to circuit ground, its not floating. Looking further at it, the inputs used are non-inverting so it may just be drawn stupidly. There are 3 chips used, all identical, all 2 channel, only difference is the rear speakers use both sides of it to sneak more power output. Cheating way of doing it too, output of section 1 is fed back to the inverting input for section 2 through a resistor divider network.



                      Since thats the case, I think it would be easy to re-wire things slightly for all 4 channels to have the same output level using one side of the output amp like the front channels are. The un-used halves of the rear channel amps could be repurposed into a buffer for a non-faded output to drive a sub at that point.
                      Interesting.

                      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                      rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                      Originally posted by gadget73
                      ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                      Originally posted by dmccaig
                      Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                      Comment


                        Woof. A lot to process to figure out what direction I can go with this now.

                        Considering the possibility of adding an aftermarket amp, I could also take the time to just rewire the whole system and install new speakers throughout. I guess I still would need to address the inputs to said amp, since I've noted most are RCA input. I guess I could get the converters I've seen that take the +/- feeds from the radio and switch to RCA, or see if I can find a amp that would accept feeds directly from the radio.


                        Originally posted by WagonMan View Post
                        I have this radio wiring from a 85ish dash. Has many plugs. It may be for the added on amp?
                        If you can use it, LMK. Just pay postage. WagonMan
                        I'll consider it, however I may just hardwire the equipment as it goes. I'd hate wasting the rest of that harness when it might be useful to someone else.
                        Last edited by Kodachrome Wolf; 10-05-2020, 09:04 PM.


                        My Cars:
                        -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
                        -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
                        -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
                        -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

                        Comment


                          just whatever you do, have the radio on plugs so it can be removed if needed. Hard-wired things are a pain in the ass to deal with when the thing behind them needs to be worked on. I'd keep with factory plugs just so you have the option of a different radio if that one barfs on you.
                          86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                          5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                          91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                          1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                          Originally posted by phayzer5
                          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                          Comment


                            So I've seen early style air dams that mount on the bumper (?), but I haven't seen the one that mounts on the radiator support.





                            Came off that '88 LTD Country Squire. There was a '88 Marquis present, but it did not have this air deflector present, nor did it look like one was ever there. Were these later deflectors a tow package specific thing? I'm personally curious to see if anything changes having it fitted to the car.

                            Besides that, I've got a pretty solid dash pad that need to get colored tan from that car. Only bad spot is one of the speaker grilles cracked and peeled upwards a bit. Any good ways to go about repairing that area? I also swapped out the locking rear seat latch. Nice to have that working now, and I can lock it properly too. Final thing I've got to install is another interior headliner roof brace. I need to get the cargo area headliner redone, and when I re-install it, I plan on using the second brace in the center to prevent roof sag back there.


                            My Cars:
                            -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
                            -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
                            -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
                            -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Kodachrome Wolf View Post
                              So I've seen early style air dams that mount on the bumper (?), but I haven't seen the one that mounts on the radiator support.





                              Came off that '88 LTD Country Squire. There was a '88 Marquis present, but it did not have this air deflector present, nor did it look like one was ever there. Were these later deflectors a tow package specific thing? I'm personally curious to see if anything changes having it fitted to the car.

                              Besides that, I've got a pretty solid dash pad that need to get colored tan from that car. Only bad spot is one of the speaker grilles cracked and peeled upwards a bit. Any good ways to go about repairing that area? I also swapped out the locking rear seat latch. Nice to have that working now, and I can lock it properly too. Final thing I've got to install is another interior headliner roof brace. I need to get the cargo area headliner redone, and when I re-install it, I plan on using the second brace in the center to prevent roof sag back there.
                              I can confirm that my 82 has that exact style air dam. It is not mounted on the bumper
                              -Phil

                              sigpic

                              +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. Built 351w, Trickflow 11R 190 Heads, Holley Sniper EFI, RPM Intake+ Hyperspark dizzy, WR-AOD, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, HPP Steering Box.

                              +2003 Acura CL Type S 6-speed

                              Comment


                                The "K" code cars had the air dam AND two gussets to reinforce the radiator support. If you don't know what I mean I can send pics tomorrow. WagonMan.
                                89 Colony Park
                                90 Colony Park
                                70 HEMI Daytona Convertible

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X