Box Town Car Spring Options

[kishy]

'84 is sagging even with next to nothing in the trunk, but a full gas tank (and sits level when the tank is near empty). I'd like to bring it up a bit, not really rake it but maybe a bit higher in the back than the front. I typically carry somewhere between 50-100lbs of stuff plus the steel spare (normally a donut but if I'm going out of the city I switch it out for the full size).

The Lincolns are obviously a little longer than the Fords and Mercs and therefore put more weight on the rear axle; I'm familiar with the effects of the CC817 and CC819 on both of my Grand Marquis (83 2dr and 91; found the 83 did not lift as much as the 91, not really sure why. Steel bumper?). I know the CC819 is way, way too much for the Mercury, it rakes it way too aggressively.

What's the option that's most likely to give me the results I'm looking for? Ideally I want to have the rear just slightly too high when completely empty of all cargo and low on fuel, and sit more or less level with everything plus perhaps one rear seat passenger.

Kinda tempted to pull the CC817s out of one of my other cars and see how it sits on them, but maybe someone has already done that with a Box Lincoln and can comment on it before I do. I feel like, based on the extra weight of the car, it will basically sit at the same height it does now but be more resistant to further sagging, which doesn't really accomplish the goal.

[gadget73]

Stock wagon springs would do what you're after, though you may find that it wants taller rear shocks to behave itself. I had problems with mine topping out on occasion and lifting the rear wheels off the ground. Its a highly disconcerting experience if you've never had it happen. These days I'm running all stock springs and shocks, it sits and rides like it should. The original springs were shot, and the cargo coils failed in a fairly short time as well. The soft part of the travel is just too soft, and it ended up sagging.

[sly]

+1 new standard springs will probably solve your issues. If you want a little rake (butt up in the air a little), get wagon rated springs.

[kishy]

After the CC819-in-sedan-on-stock-shocks setup, I wouldn't do the same again unless I had 500lbs to put in the trunk at all times. That thing sat obnoxiously and unpleasantly high and looked awful in addition to driving awful. Bouncing off the top of the shock travel when you go over train tracks on a curve is an experience far beyond disconcerting.

Rake is only acceptable here if it will exist unloaded and go away with the load described in the OP, which is really not that much. You'd be talking about wagon constant rate springs, not cargo coils, right? How do those compare to the cargo coils (CC819)?

So Moog 8805 looks to be the Lincoln stock rear spring replacement. No more or less expensive than any other really, so it's just a matter of making sure it's what I want.

[jaywish]

Something to consider is the ford air ride shock system. These maintain the height you want. Select springs to taste not height after that.

[gadget73]

Lincoln springs sit basically level, or very slightly down in the back. If your fronts are original, it'll be level or maybe slightly high in the back.

[His Royal Ghostliness]

819s aren't horrible in a Lincoln... but then again I did have 250-ish lbs of sand in the trunk for winter traction, when it was time to take it out of the the springs had settled down to a more manageable ride height.

You have the 817s already, pull them from whatever car uses them now and throw them under the Lincoln and see how they suit you.

[nfldfordltd]

I have a set from a 90 or 91 police Crown Vic in my 88 Lincoln since 2007. Up ever so slightly in the rear, and holding up good. Stays pretty level even when loaded down with stuff. Works well with stock shock absorbers. Needs a sway bar to complete the package though, still a bit wallowy at high speeds and in strong cross winds.

[kishy]

All 3 of mine will (if I have my way with it, and time, and money, and all the other things that will probably never align properly) get the newer years' air spring system (not the air shocks, but the air springs).

Another thing I considered is an Air Lift kit. e.g. buy new Lincoln stock springs; if they don't do what I want under load, firm them up with the Air Lift bags. However I really want it to stay squishy and wallowy, and just sit higher while continuing to be that way.

When I did the big brakes on my '91 MGM, though I used rubber bushings, I initially put it on the Speedway springs, paired with KYB Excel-Gs which was a mistake. Totally ruined the car for me. Like it literally made me start to hate it, and I loved that car like a family member. Swapped out for whatever the "HD" stock front coils are and it brought it back closer to what I wanted, but I'm thinking the factory springs will go back in that and possibly less functional shocks. I need that car to get back closer to where the Lincoln is in suspension.

My motivations are unusual. No "low", no "go", and no "handling". Those are all bad words never to be uttered in my world.

Gonna try the CC817 swap and see what happens. Given the unpleasant weather I'll probably wait for a break in the cold before I do.

[gadget73]

The frame up at the top won't accomodate the air springs. You'll have to cut the top of the perch out and weld in one from a later one, or do some hand fabricobbling. Either way, they are not physically a drop-in. I had the same idea, but I wasn't interested in dealing with frame changes. At some point I'll get a set of those load assist springs that go inside the coil and splice it into my factory load level system. That should allow it to ride at stock height without air when I have no load, and pump up as needed when people or things are added. The original system used air shocks to do the same thing, but basically we get 2 options for air shocks, and neither are all that great. I'd rather be able to run whatever I want for shocks and not have the ass end drag if I put stuff in the car.

[DerekTheGreat]

Something to consider is the ford air ride shock system. These maintain the height you want. Select springs to taste not height after that.

This. I love the Load Leveling set-up on my Townie. I had to fiddle with the sensor for a bit but now it maintains the factory ride height even when loaded, if anything it overcompensates a bit but that looks better than sag. Hated that about my '85. Put two people in the back and then the car looks like a hooptie.

[kishy]

Oddly enough, I kind of get the impression the "backwards rake" is the correct stock stance. I say that because of this commercial for the '84: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjElcUj-f-A

The car shown in the commercial (which obviously was new at the time) sits not so far off from how mine does. I think it looks awful. In that case I am not looking to put it at stock height, I am looking to put it slightly above stock height.

Too bad about the newer air springs. I'll look into the air shocks. What I'd probably opt to do is go for new stock spec rear springs, new air shocks, and track down a junkyard height sensor and compressor/controller deal (I know where one is), then wire it up per the EVTM.

RockAuto shows 3 options still available, Gabriel 49205, Monroe MA815, and Monroe 54599K. The MA815 is where I'd be leaning, barring any suggestions otherwise...keeping in mind that I'm completely satisfied with the current handling of the car, gadget, when you say the available air shocks suck, do you mean because they're close to stock (which suck)?

And another thought:
MA815 description on RockAuto is as follows: Rear; For Towing & Hauling; w/o Commercial Chassis; AK23 adapter Kit is required when replacing Absorbers on cars equipped with an Automatic Leveling System.

AK23 looks to be just a pair of little brass fittings, see below. What exactly do these adapt/connect? If they would not be required for a retrofit using new parts, no sense buying them, but knowing what it is they connect to what else would be helpful in deciding that.

[DerekTheGreat]

Head back up to Ryan's and pick that 86's compressor, controller and associated lines. I didn't see any air lines going to the shocks, which were the gas charged type so they were probably cut. I did snag the sensor but not sure it's any good, rusty as frig and putting 5v into it while testing the other wires wasn't producing the 2.2v max, was getting more like 0.44. At the least, I covered the compressor and stuff back up so I doubt anyone has taken it, looked nice. You could also try taking the JBL amp and see if it works. I left it be but did steal the speakers

You will need the retrofit kit, forget what part that was, I think I have an old thread back when I revived my stuff. I also believe I went with the Monroe kit, MA815. I have had good luck with them so far, they hold air and seem to ride nice. I know of a guy who has much disdain for Monroe due to personal experience though.

[jaywish]

I find the air shocks to be a bit harsh. I compensated for that by going to the softer stock springs. I find it acceptable paired with the heaver sway bar. Ideal would be the more modern air springs.

[His Royal Ghostliness]

The air shock harshness comes from the relatively low volume of air they can hold - as a result the spring rate ramps up quite progressively. The in-coil air bladders Gadget mentioned will be better in that regard, they can hold roughly twice as much air volume so much more linear spring rate. Naturally the actual air springs are best, they win in both spring rate linearity and oscillation self-dampening characteristics due to their "rolling" lobe design.

Want a curve ball to all of this? If you ever wondered why intercity coach buses ride like they're on a cloud, that's cause they kinda are - they have massive air springs (like well over a foot in diameter) and each of those is plumbed into an expansion tank (also called "ping" tanks) that nearly doubles the available air volume, this basically allows the suspension to support the weight of the bus however as the wheels encounter bumps and dips the change in spring length has very little effect on the spring rate and thus the body hardly moves. Keep in mind that while in theory one can easily apply the same principle to a car that is incompatible with factory air springs in order to take the harshness out of the shocks, in reality there won't be any noticeable gains as the air line ports in most aftermarket air shocks are only 1/8" in size which doesn't flow anywhere near enough air volume to take advantage of a ping tank. That flow limit also happens to be one reason why simply replacing factory air shocks with aftermarket ones reduces body roll - factory shocks use 1/4" air line IIRC so it's easier for them to transfer air from one into the other as the body leans into a corner, the smaller 1/8" air line aftermarket shocks use is pretty horrible in that regard so the shocks act more like two separate springs even tho they're actually tied together.