PotM GrandMarq.NET - Panther Headquarters Forum Index PotM
GMN Chat Room GMN's STORE!! GMN's Gallery Please!!
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30

Thread: Autolamp Funkiness

  1. #1
    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Evans, GA
    Posts
    1,426

    Default Autolamp Funkiness

    I've been looking into fixing and adding some small electrical things on the wagon. The one feature I know that doesn't work "properly" is the autolamps. If you set the dial for the autolamps, the low beam headlights turn on regardless if it is dark or light, and only the low beams come on. The front marker lamps and tail lights do not turn on.

    You can hear a relay kick on when you set the dial as one would expect when the autolamps should come on, but obviously the system isn't working correctly. I'm wondering what I need to pull so I can see if the issue can be further diagnosed. I'm still learning my way around the underside of the dash regarding how it's wired.

    While autolamps are not a necessity for me since manually turning the lights on works just fine, it would just be nice to have.

    My Cars:
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 POTM Winner
    -1989 Sable LS Wagon (88,710 Miles) - Sold
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (210K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

  2. #2
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lewisville, TX
    Posts
    21,038

    Default

    the autolamp relay gets power from the switch (the 4-pin connector IIRC). That relay itself should not be touched unless you figure out that it is the issue as a wire is coming out of the back of the casing on the metal clip it is mounted to and removing the clip from the relay will most likely break the wire if you don't desolder it first. So if the relay isn't getting power for the headlamps, it won't be able to provide it. Does the parking lights come on when the relay clicks? If neither the parking lights or the headlights come on, then it's probably the switch itself, or the connector to the autolamp relay from the switch. The relay may be mounted on the fender or under the dash behind the ashtray. Probing the wires via the openings in the harness where the wires go into it would be the easy way to find out if it's even getting power when the autolamp is enabled (doesn't need to be dark to check this). If the relay is getting power, but doesn't output power to the lights (cover the sensor) when tripped, the relay may be bad or the wire to the clip may be broken or the clip's connection to the body is bad.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  3. #3
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    37,752

    Default

    Isn't that relay a 2 pole relay? If the headlights work but the parking do not in automatic, I'd have to suspect the parking lamp side of that relay isn't working.

    Assuming the parking lights work manually of course. if they don't work there either, you may have a dead fuse or something else going on.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  4. #4
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lewisville, TX
    Posts
    21,038

    Default

    It gets power for each line separately. Need to check the source power as well. That relay is 5 pin with one wire out the back for coil ground. One wire is trigger and the other 4 are parking power, headlight power, parking out, and headlight out. Yeah... it's a real mess of a relay.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  5. #5
    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Evans, GA
    Posts
    1,426

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    Isn't that relay a 2 pole relay? If the headlights work but the parking do not in automatic, I'd have to suspect the parking lamp side of that relay isn't working.

    Assuming the parking lights work manually of course. if they don't work there either, you may have a dead fuse or something else going on.
    Headlights work in automatic, parking lights don't. Everything works manually.

    My Cars:
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 POTM Winner
    -1989 Sable LS Wagon (88,710 Miles) - Sold
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (210K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

  6. #6
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    37,752

    Default

    sounds like the parking light side of the relay might be dinked then.

    If its that goofy of a device, is there any reason one couldn't re-work it to use a pair of boring old Bosch type relays, one for headlamps and one for parking lamps?

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  7. #7
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lewisville, TX
    Posts
    21,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    sounds like the parking light side of the relay might be dinked then.

    If its that goofy of a device, is there any reason one couldn't re-work it to use a pair of boring old Bosch type relays, one for headlamps and one for parking lamps?
    Other than space issues... no. You'd have to tie both coils to ground and trigger and then make sure you got both parking and headlight on their own relay or you'll smoke the parking side of stuff if you're trying to drive the headlights with that.

    You could also wire in the 6-wire relay from aeros.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  8. #8
    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Evans, GA
    Posts
    1,426

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sly View Post
    You could also wire in the 6-wire relay from aeros.
    Early Aeros or all Aeros? Boxes are hit and miss in salvage yards, yet I'm bound to find plenty of Aeros around. I've got a hunch you'll say early since the '95+ cars were LCM setups.

    Also, any particular area I should be looking for inside of them for that relay? I can look up the location for the '95-'97 in my factory manual if those are available donors, but I assume the '92-'94 cars may be different.

    My Cars:
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 POTM Winner
    -1989 Sable LS Wagon (88,710 Miles) - Sold
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (210K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

  9. #9
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    37,752

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sly View Post
    Other than space issues... no. You'd have to tie both coils to ground and trigger and then make sure you got both parking and headlight on their own relay or you'll smoke the parking side of stuff if you're trying to drive the headlights with that.

    You could also wire in the 6-wire relay from aeros.
    I just have a dislike of stupid proprietary parts when I can change them to common parts that can be had anywhere. Changing one proprietary part for another doesn't really seem like a good improvement either. The "new" one is still 25 years old.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  10. #10
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lewisville, TX
    Posts
    21,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    I just have a dislike of stupid proprietary parts when I can change them to common parts that can be had anywhere. Changing one proprietary part for another doesn't really seem like a good improvement either. The "new" one is still 25 years old.
    The "new" one is also still made. You can get replacements. +1 for just putting in some BOSCH style relays though. If my relay dies in my beater, I'll probably do just that or just use the manual switch.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  11. #11
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lewisville, TX
    Posts
    21,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kodachrome Wolf View Post
    Early Aeros or all Aeros? Boxes are hit and miss in salvage yards, yet I'm bound to find plenty of Aeros around. I've got a hunch you'll say early since the '95+ cars were LCM setups.

    Also, any particular area I should be looking for inside of them for that relay? I can look up the location for the '95-'97 in my factory manual if those are available donors, but I assume the '92-'94 cars may be different.
    yeah... just to 94.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  12. #12
    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Evans, GA
    Posts
    1,426

    Default

    Bringing up this dead thread since I'm just running on a theory and I'm going to look into getting my Autolamps going again. The use of a conventional relay setup would be handy, and relays can be relocated, so that's not a big deal to me.

    So the original relay is some funky proprietary thing that makes life great, until it's not. So the original unit is a DPDT configuration (Dual Pole, Dual Throw). Essentially one single coil energizes two circuits instead of one. My theory is that one could use two conventional four pin relays, and just marry the ground and input feed (coil side) together. Then the circuits to be energized should be good to go.



    Is my reasoning off here? While I understand this adds an extra relay to the mix, it would simplify what would need to be used to fix a failing DPDT unit, since it's far easier to usually get a regular four pin relay. As far as I know, mine is failed on the park/tail lamp circuit. Headlight circuit energizes, but that's it.

    My Cars:
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 POTM Winner
    -1989 Sable LS Wagon (88,710 Miles) - Sold
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (210K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

  13. #13
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    37,752

    Default

    Looks right to me. Only possible issue is the current draw from 2 coils vs 1. If the existing relay still clicks, any chance you could check the current draw on the coil and compare it to the draw on a pair of Bosch relays? Its probably not an issue but just worth considering.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  14. #14
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lewisville, TX
    Posts
    21,038

    Default

    Yup... that's the way to do it.

    as for the current draw... new relays probably use less coil current than those old relays anyhow... but always good to check.

    You could always switch to the aero/whale (92-07) autolamp relay. It's a 6-pin. The "fun" part is getting the pigtail.

    https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...rol+relay,3020

    Another option is a double pole single throw relay like this one: https://www.amazon.com/TE-CONNECTIVI...dp/B00ITGKQCE/
    Just get use a bunch of blade connectors.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  15. #15
    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Evans, GA
    Posts
    1,426

    Default

    So tackled this little project. Wired everything up just like I laid out, and the park light circuit was still dead. I was getting a real weak click on it's relay (swapped around just to make sure I didn't have a dud), so I figure something's bummed out on that circuit. I might have a meh headlight connector, perhaps a bum switch, but I didn't diagnose that far.

    However, I decided to just try a new idea. Single circuit using only the headlamp feed as the trigger and feeding the headlamp and park lamp circuits off a single relay. I felt somewhat comfortable doing that since my headlights are on a external harness.

    Using a conventional single four pin relay, I did the following:
    -PIN 30: O/W | From headlight switch; Headlamp feed
    -PIN 85: Ground
    -PIN 86: W/P | Relay output; From Autolamp sensor module
    -PIN 87: R/Y & BR | Output to headlamp (R/Y) and park lamp (BR)

    This leaves the DG/Y feed from the headlight switch for the park lamp feed unused.



    Now I just need to determine if the light sensor actually works properly, switching off when light hits it. At least this solves the issue getting all the lights on. Technically I could have just jumped the circuit in the same manner on the old relay, but I was somewhat expecting the dual relay combo to fix the issue. \_(ツ)_/ At least now if one truly desired to move away from the proprietary relay, you could do so.
    Last edited by Kodachrome Wolf; 05-16-2019 at 12:11 AM.

    My Cars:
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 POTM Winner
    -1989 Sable LS Wagon (88,710 Miles) - Sold
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (210K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

  16. #16
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    37,752

    Default

    With the relay coils in parallel, I don't understand why one would operate normally and the other would not. As your diagram was drawn, a single +12v to 86 would fire both of them. If the voltage input to 86 was weak, you'd have no park or headlamp operation.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  17. #17
    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Evans, GA
    Posts
    1,426

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    With the relay coils in parallel, I don't understand why one would operate normally and the other would not. As your diagram was drawn, a single +12v to 86 would fire both of them. If the voltage input to 86 was weak, you'd have no park or headlamp operation.
    I find the wiring a bit odd anyway. From the headlight switch, there's two feeds to that relay. One feed is headlight, one feed is park light. The relay would engage both those circuits and engage them independently. Why? No idea, it just sounds a bit extra unless it had to do with load since power for the headlamps normally goes straight through the switch.

    Now it's a bit more straightforwards with just a single trigger feed.

    I popped the dash pad off to inspect the light sensor. Unfortunately the lights are staying on all the time, even in light. I attempted to adjust the little knob to see if there would be any change, but nothing happened. I guess I may need to grab another light sensor for testing.

    My Cars:
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 POTM Winner
    -1989 Sable LS Wagon (88,710 Miles) - Sold
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (210K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

  18. #18
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    37,752

    Default

    looking at the 86 Towncar EVTM should be close enough for reference here. It appears that the headlight power source is a fuse link, and the parking lamp source is a fuse in the box. Do your park lamps work manually? If not, check the fuses.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  19. #19
    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Evans, GA
    Posts
    1,426

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    looking at the 86 Towncar EVTM should be close enough for reference here. It appears that the headlight power source is a fuse link, and the parking lamp source is a fuse in the box. Do your park lamps work manually? If not, check the fuses.
    Park lamps work fine. I've never had an issue with manually turning on the lights. Only when the autolamp circuit was engaged it wouldn't activate the park lamp circuit.


    Also, is there a particular autolamp sensor I need to get? I'm seeing stuff for Thunderbirds and stuff for Town Cars. My P/N is E1VB-14A597-A1A, but some of these other units appear similar, usually with just differences in the third character slot of the P/N.

    My Cars:
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 POTM Winner
    -1989 Sable LS Wagon (88,710 Miles) - Sold
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (210K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

  20. #20
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    37,752

    Default

    E1VB is 81 Lincoln, so you should be fine with one of those. I have a Turd sensor on the Continental.

    Might be worth checking power through the headlamp switch. Looks like input from the fuse panel is T/W, the pass-through to the relay is DG/Y. If you don't get anything on the DG/Y either the connection at the switch is toasty or the internal connection opened up.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
GMN Approved Links!


www.rockauto.com www.adtr.net