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97 GM transmission shudder a help!

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    97 GM transmission shudder a help!

    Just picked up a 1 owner 1997 GM with 97k miles. I noticed on the way home...driving about 20 miles so its good and hot...I noticed a pretty good shudder from 3rd to 4th. Any ideas?

    Is this as simple as fresh fluid, or is OD going out....I sincerely hope not the latter because I'm broke.

    #2
    Drop the pan, change the filter, and add fresh fluid. It should be 5 quarts for a filter service fill. Grab some Mercon V from your favorite auto parts store.

    If the problem persists, it may be something else.


    My Cars:
    -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
    -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

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      #3
      ^ what he said. If the problem persists, replace the torque converter. It's lockup shudder.

      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
      rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
      Originally posted by gadget73
      ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
      Originally posted by dmccaig
      Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

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        #4
        I've never done this before yet. Does the filter just pop out once the pan is off? I'm assuming it's wise to buy a filter that comes with a new pan gasket?

        If the problem does persist.... What can happen driving it with the shudder?

        Comment


          #5
          After you remove the pan, you simply need to pull the old filter out. It may be a little stuck if it hasn't been serviced before. You should not need to replace the pan gasket unless yours is shot. Our cars have reusable pan gaskets which are superior to the generic ones usually packaged with transmission filters. Only replace your gasket with a new one if it is damaged.


          My Cars:
          -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
          -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
          -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
          -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

          Comment


            #6
            Okay thanks. I'll give it a shot!

            Comment


              #7
              If you've never serviced a transmission before... there is no drain plug. If you're asking why, take solace in the fact that everyone has asked this same question for years.

              Draining can be tricky. I usually start by loosening the front of the pan, and progressively working my way backwards around the pan, so that the pan "hangs" off the partially loosened bolts. Keep loosening them incrementally, until the fluid has drained enough that handling the pan is manageable. You need a good sized drain pan to do this without making a mess. If the bolts give you grief (had this on rusty cars), be patient and use some PB blaster. Breaking a bolt in the pan rail is less than ideal.

              Also make sure that you have the o-ring on the filter, the old o-ring was removed, and you have it (o-ring and filter) fully seated before re-installing the pan.

              I would pick up at least 6 quarts of fluid. Add 5, cycle it, check, and test drive. Add more as required. It never hurts to have an extra couple quarts around.

              As an FYI, my Dad had a '99 P71 that used to shudder at lock up, and a transmission service fixed the issue. There is hope!
              **2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302: 5.0/ 6 spd/ 3.73s, 20K Cruiser
              **2006 MGM,"Ultimate": 4.6/ 2.73/ Dark Tint, Magnaflows, 19s, 115K Daily Driver
              **2012 Harley Davidson Wide Glide (FXDWG):103/ Cobra Speedsters/ Cosmetics, 9K Poseur HD Rider
              **1976 Ford F-150 4WD: 360, 4 spd, 3.50s, factory A/C, 4" lift, Bilsteins, US Indy Mags, 35s Truck Duties

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks for the heads up. That does seem silly that there isn't a drain plug.

                Driving it today, I mainly noticed it doing it in 3rd (off and on during acceleration) and a tiny bit in 4th whenever gas was let off and re-applied.

                Still sound like lock up issue?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Yes torque converter. Especially when cruising and letting off throttle when it's in 4th with locked converter. Then reapply throttle. Torque converter will unlock then lock again.
                  -Nick M.
                  Columbia, SC

                  66 Squire, 89 Colony Park, 90 TC, 03 TC, 06 TC, 07 TC (2x)
                  03 BMW 540iT, 07 Toyota Tundra SR5 Dbl Cab/5.7 2WD

                  Comment


                    #10
                    FWIW, Dorman makes a transmission pan with a drain plug if you're interested. I'm considering getting one for ease of service in the future.


                    My Cars:
                    -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
                    -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
                    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
                    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by TecNickal View Post
                      Yes torque converter. Especially when cruising and letting off throttle when it's in 4th with locked converter. Then reapply throttle. Torque converter will unlock then lock again.
                      Ok if servicing it doesn't work that'll be the next step. Still better than the whole transmission I'd say though.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Kodachrome Wolf View Post
                        FWIW, Dorman makes a transmission pan with a drain plug if you're interested. I'm considering getting one for ease of service in the future.
                        I'm assuming its this guy right here?

                        http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-7388...nmfrcode=4R70W

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Also, not to start a fluid brand war, but is an off the shelf fluid, like an autozone, Mercon V sufficient, or should I shoot for something else? I don't want to spend a whole lot in fluid if it does turn out to be the tq converter.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I usually use Motorcraft fluid, but I have used Valvoline Mercon V in the past. The only drawback to the Valvoline is it seems to smell burnt right of the bottle. Not sure it's changed since I only used it that one time.

                            If you can drain the torque converter I'd do that too. Think it still has the drain plug on that year. You'd have to pop off the rubber inspection cover on the bellhousing and rotate the engine around by hand to see if it does for sure. If you do that and drain the pan then you'd get more of the junk fluid out. I'd also suggest the J-mod and a trans. cooler for it. J-mod doesn't necessarily help with the TC shudder, but it provides faster clutch engagement which cuts down on clutch wear and heat generation. The cooler will help keep the fluid alive a bit longer as well. Been through a few 4R70W issues myself and seem to have finally made one live rather well, lol.. so far.

                            I'd change out as much fluid as possible, new filter and fluid and see what you get. You could probably snag a good cooler for cheap if you look around. All else fails then you just extended the life of it hopefully long enough to locate a used trans. for it. I know how it is to have limited funds and have a drivetrain component start to give up. Rear axle redo #3 coming up for me here shortly. Hopefully for the last time...
                            These are highly engineered precision vehicles, the first step in diagnosing the problem is to strike the suspected offending part sharply and repeatedly with a blunt object, then re-test.

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