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Thread: kishy's 1985 Country Squire

  1. #381
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    Lincoln's original timing set with nylon-toothed cam gear:



    Take-off from the wagon:



    So it's definitely a replacement, and this one never had nylon teeth. This points me towards thinking the car does have 145k miles rather than 45k miles. Believe it or not, the latter was completely believable to me up until the axle shaft wear and this finding. The car shows evidence of living a very hard life but it does not show evidence of high mileage, other than the axle shaft and the timing set.

    As for the question of how it compared to the new set, the video shows the slop (excessive), and the new set was so tight it was hard to get the cam gear on because the crank gear needs to be slid along at exactly the same rate to keep the chain the right length.

    Who wants to place bets on if it still has overdrive? TV rod was improperly connected, but not in a really awful way, but that still suggests it came detached in order to prompt the halfass fix. I've never seen the car driven nor driven it myself outside of my driveway above first gear or reverse.
    Last edited by kishy; 07-02-2019 at 10:44 PM.

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  2. #382
    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
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    On TV rod cars, do they fall to low pressure like the TV cable cars do when disconnected?

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  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodachrome Wolf View Post
    On TV rod cars, do they fall to low pressure like the TV cable cars do when disconnected?
    Good question. There is a fair bit of (mis?)information suggesting that it goes to full pressure when the linkage disconnects. When the linkage is disconnected, spring tension at the transmission end pushes the rod forward past the zero throttle position. The rod does not move to the full throttle position, it moves to its minimum value.

    I have not verified with a gauge what happens when the rod goes there, but logically speaking, it is probably zero TV, not full TV.

    The only way it could go full TV is if the internal valving just by chance allows pressure to go full at the zero travel position of the linkage.

    Let's put it this way...if I accelerate in the Lincoln, and then coast downhill with the throttle totally closed, the trans will still upshift in response to low throttle/high driveshaft speed. If it were going to high TV at fully closed, it would downshift to 1 every time I let off the pedal.
    Last edited by kishy; 07-02-2019 at 11:09 PM.

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  4. #384
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Really cool pic of the cam gears. I've never seen a nylon one but you can definitely tell your Lincoln's old gear was indeed nylon. And we can see that your wagon had a replacement chain. But weren't some '85's equipped with regular cam gears? I thought I heard '85 was that strange year where you might end with such things like that and a roller motor or at least one provisioned for the roller stuff.

    I feel these things fail similar to how an SEFI does, only it's probably less common if the thing was adjusted right from the factory. When the grommet fails on a TV shaft car, there is just slop between the linkage and the shaft, so you're at least looking at lower TV pressure than there should be. When I got my '85 it was that way, I put a new grommet on and adjusted the trans correctly. When I first got it, it would slip on acceleration when cold but never had any issues going into OD. I found my car in a junkyard last year, no apparent damage so I'm guessing the trans died on it.

    I would change the filter and fluid and then run it through the gears on jackstands before putting it on the road if it was my car.
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  5. #385
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    From what I remember about posts here and there for CFI cars, TV rod transmission up to like 84 I think fail to high pressure. After that it changed to failure of destruction.

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  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    Really cool pic of the cam gears. I've never seen a nylon one but you can definitely tell your Lincoln's old gear was indeed nylon. And we can see that your wagon had a replacement chain. But weren't some '85's equipped with regular cam gears? I thought I heard '85 was that strange year where you might end with such things like that and a roller motor or at least one provisioned for the roller stuff.

    I feel these things fail similar to how an SEFI does, only it's probably less common if the thing was adjusted right from the factory. When the grommet fails on a TV shaft car, there is just slop between the linkage and the shaft, so you're at least looking at lower TV pressure than there should be. When I got my '85 it was that way, I put a new grommet on and adjusted the trans correctly. When I first got it, it would slip on acceleration when cold but never had any issues going into OD. I found my car in a junkyard last year, no apparent damage so I'm guessing the trans died on it.

    I would change the filter and fluid and then run it through the gears on jackstands before putting it on the road if it was my car.
    My understanding is that the nylon cam teeth (just the teeth, the gear overall is metal) continued quite a bit later. My buddy's 87 had the nylon stuff.

    My 84 has proven very picky about TV. There is an exact dividing line between slippage and teeth-removing jarring gear engagement. I toe that line with how it's set. I suspect the trans is sad, tired and worn and that's where the slipping at more normal TV levels comes from. Or so I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by sly View Post
    From what I remember about posts here and there for CFI cars, TV rod transmission up to like 84 I think fail to high pressure. After that it changed to failure of destruction.
    My 83 behaves the same as my 84, and both of them mechanically operate the same as the 85. 83 is factory carb and it uses the same TV linkage as CFI. The only difference that could exist is internal to the trans, and that I of course can't speak to.

    If there is not a "full TV pressure" position in the valving just below the zero TV value, then the only way it makes sense is for the TV rod to fall off in such a way that it pushes the TV lever all the way down. The TV lever on the trans is spring loaded to come back up when it gets pushed.

    I really want to not totally discard the effort someone may have gone to in proving that, but I have not seen it to be true, and my vehicles are prime examples of it not behaving that way.

    ---

    Today, decided to remove more things. A cast iron water pump is on the way. With the issues I had getting the Lincoln to seal up using an aluminum pump on the "HD" timing cover, I will not make that same mistake here.

    Throttle body off. I need to replace the idle speed pull-off diaphragm, which I have more of, so that's good.
    Distributor off. Didn't put up a fight, thanks to me previously re-stabbing it to fix the totally inverted plug wiring order it had when I got it.
    EGR off. Very plugged up with carbon. Valve tests OK and will be used. Valve had been hooked to incorrect vacuum line, which went directly to a vacuum source, which explains why it got capped off.
    Coolant fitting where the ECT goes was rusted through. I think I've got a spare. ECT disintegrated when I looked at it.
    Broke an intake manifold bolt, the one at the front by number 5. Same one that broke on the Lincoln. Coolant with insufficient corrosion protection eats them up.
    Intake off. Gasket condition verifies I was right to pull it to re-gasket it.

    Green growth is still present and active. It isn't coolant, it's definitely alive. I vacuumed some of it up and now more of it is back. Cool in a weird way.













    And that's how it sits currently; timing cover and intake off, with stuff covering all of the openings. Hoping the mysterious day of Americans setting off annoying noise and light makers won't interrupt my FedEx shipment because I'd love to put the timing cover on this weekend, and that requires having a water pump on-hand.

    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 & 4/2019 | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards

  7. #387
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    I think the full pressure thing depends on how it falls off. If it comes off at idle, it will be at no pressure. If it falls off and gets pushed back with throttle, its possible to stay there since the rod can drop down and get stuck.

    Either way you really don't want the thing disconnected from the throttle linkage, its just not going to work correctly.

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    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    I think the full pressure thing depends on how it falls off. If it comes off at idle, it will be at no pressure. If it falls off and gets pushed back with throttle, its possible to stay there since the rod can drop down and get stuck.

    Either way you really don't want the thing disconnected from the throttle linkage, its just not going to work correctly.
    Pretty much this. It either grenades or won't shift out of first.

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  9. #389
    Approaching 2 decades of DDing Box Panthers VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    Those holes that the front two lower intake bolt/studs bolt into are through holes. I broke one of them on one engine and both on another engine. Found some really clean ones at the JY (from non through holes) and put some high-temp antiseize on them. I wasn't terribly worried about how the antiseize would affect torque reading, and no issues to report a year later.
    Vic

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  10. #390
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    enough head was sticking up to use that ez out grabber contraption thing? Any heat persuasion before that?
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  11. #391
    Approaching 2 decades of DDing Box Panthers VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    They usually break with enough to grab onto, at least all the ones I broke had enough left to grab onto.
    On mine I used a propane torch since that's all I had on hand. Vicegrips or smack a 6ish mm socket on along with the propane torch is all it took in my case. Dad has those easy out sockets but I don't think his set had a small enough socket.
    Vic

    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, summer DD
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon - wannabe winter DD - I'll fix it eventually
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - My rotting winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic


  12. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicCrownVic View Post
    Those holes that the front two lower intake bolt/studs bolt into are through holes. I broke one of them on one engine and both on another engine. Found some really clean ones at the JY (from non through holes) and put some high-temp antiseize on them. I wasn't terribly worried about how the antiseize would affect torque reading, and no issues to report a year later.
    Yeah, the fact they go through the coolant passages really doesn't help with anything. My 91, broke none. 83, broke none. 84, broke one, and I'm fairly sure it was this same one (might have been the other side). Now this, broke one. I'm replacing it with a normal bolt. The bracket that goes on the stud on a CFI car is the ignition coil, and it's not the only mounting point, so it isn't essential that it can attach there.

    I anti-seize every fastener that I touch, typically, but special attention is given to the water pump and intake.

    Quote Originally Posted by 87gtVIC View Post
    enough head was sticking up to use that ez out grabber contraption thing? Any heat persuasion before that?
    Yup, just enough, and no heat needed although I was prepared to apply it. There was a second thinned out weak spot on the bolt which would have been the next breaking point, and if it had let go there, I'd have needed to dry to get it out using an spiral flute extractor thing which would be no fun given the size of the fastener.

    ---

    Last night into today, watched Stranger Things season 3. Excellent as I've come to expect.

    Unrelated side note: if you do, or don't but you can eat yogurt, peach Activia is absolutely phenomenal. Better than candy. All Activia is great for how much actual fruit chunks they put in but the peach is just really something.

    Today, picked up fasteners required to proceed with the engine stuff.

    Chased all threads for intake, timing cover and water pump with a tap. This included boring out the coolant mucky grossness from the two holes used for a cast iron pump, as the aluminum pump did not make use of them.

    Put a new seal in the timing cover, coated the cover gasket and oil pan pieces with Permatex Ultra Black RTV, put that on. Coated the water pump gaskets in Permatex water pump and thermostat RTV, put that on. Thoroughly wire brushed all the water pump fasteners and I feel confident they've got life left in them.

    Replaced the main ground cable and the starter positive cable. Ran a new 16ga wire along with the new cable so it is sort of "pre-wired" for a mini starter if I decide to go that route, and I certainly will, it's just a matter of when.

    Intake gaskets are not wanting to come off of the head mating surfaces. Really really stuck on there. I will win, of course, just going to take some doing.

    Hosed off, brake cleanered, and scrubbed the intake with a wire brush. It's starting to resemble something that belongs on a car. Also, chased the t-stat bolt holes with a tap, and got new slightly shorter bolts for it to make the reassembly less awful, hopefully, although if I'm smart I'll put the t-stat on before I reinstall the intake.






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  13. #393
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    I could've sworn that when I was younger, people only lit their flash & bang stuff on the 4th and 5th to burn off the excess. Now it seems they do it from June 30th through July 10th. I heard more last night.

    We just started Stranger Things. I liked it, despite not having an "R" rating or better. So stuff could be grittier than it is but still entertaining. Hoping to watch more of that tonight.

    Yogurt with fruit chunks. Yuck. Never been a fan of candy. Baked goods, that's where it's at.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
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  14. #394
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    Fireworks do nothing for me. Never have. It always felt like I needed to seem like I was enjoying myself merely for the benefit of the other people who I felt like were feeling the same way and similarly did not enjoy it but felt they needed to display that they did lol.

    Yogurt without fruit is like...just...why? What's even the point?

    ---

    Tonight, decided to do the bare minimum to make progress but not actually do much.

    Cleaned the thermostat housing mating surfaces, RTV'd a gasket, and put a new thermostat in. The intake is still off the engine so this is the right time to do it. Between the new bolts and the tap-chased threads, the bolts went in nicely.

    Went around the water pump tightening everything which had been left just kinda hand tight while the RTV set in place. One of the cast-iron-only holes (driver side) stripped out. The threads were pretty badly corroded so I guess I'm not surprised. Pulled bolt out, RTV'd the end of it, and put the bolt back in, untight as it may be. We'll see if that contributes any positive value to the sealing. The alternative I'm considering is to pull the bolt out and stuff the entire bolt hole with RTV, all the way through. There needs to be something in that void to resist the gasket blowing out into it.

    I need to replenish my supply of some hoses. RockAuto...

    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 & 4/2019 | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards

  15. #395
    GMN Regular slack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kishy View Post
    Yogurt without fruit is like...just...why? What's even the point?
    Amen!

    Did you end up painting the water pump? I remember the cast iron ones tend to get the surface rust look quick. Not really an issue unless you care about the clean shine-y look though.

  16. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by kishy View Post
    Fireworks do nothing for me. Never have. It always felt like I needed to seem like I was enjoying myself merely for the benefit of the other people who I felt like were feeling the same way and similarly did not enjoy it but felt they needed to display that they did lol...
    It's the peacock effect I guess. They don't do anything for me any more either. I tend to just think they're obnoxious and the event is an excuse to be as much. Although when I was younger I loved smoke bombs and M-80's.

    Quote Originally Posted by kishy View Post
    ...Yogurt without fruit is like...just...why? What's even the point?...
    That's just like, your opinion, maan.
    It's the texture I can't stand. I used to love the lemon fruit pies from Hostess when I was a kid. Not necessarily because I liked the lemon flavor over the other flavors, just that there were no fruit bits inside like with the cherry ones. I liked the cherry ones too, I just always picked the cherries out of the pies and tried to offer them to someone else as I ate the thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by kishy View Post
    ...Went around the water pump tightening everything which had been left just kinda hand tight while the RTV set in place. One of the cast-iron-only holes (driver side) stripped out. The threads were pretty badly corroded so I guess I'm not surprised. Pulled bolt out, RTV'd the end of it, and put the bolt back in, untight as it may be. We'll see if that contributes any positive value to the sealing. The alternative I'm considering is to pull the bolt out and stuff the entire bolt hole with RTV, all the way through. There needs to be something in that void to resist the gasket blowing out into it.

    I need to replenish my supply of some hoses. RockAuto...
    Gah, I hate that feeling. That is why I try to do much of that stuff by hand and with a ratchet smaller than what would be convenient. I was changing the thermostat out in Ashley's new C1500 a few weeks ago. Torque spec for the housing was 15 or 25ftlbs if I remember right. Well, I went and got my torque wrench all configured but it didn't feel right so I just did it by hand to avoid stripping out the aluminum threads. No leaks.. yet.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
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  17. #397
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    I just don't like peach. My usual yogurt consumption is in smoothie form. Yogurt, a little milk, and a bunch of whatever fruit I have on hand. Frozen fruit is perfect for this, kinda makes it like drinking a fruit-flavored milk shake. Less fattening since I use nonfat yogurt, and fruit is good for you anyway. Some of the berry mixes are a little too tart, but mixing in some applesauce will sweeten it right up.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

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    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  18. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by slack View Post
    Amen!

    Did you end up painting the water pump? I remember the cast iron ones tend to get the surface rust look quick. Not really an issue unless you care about the clean shine-y look though.
    I did not. I was tempted to, but for some reason settled on not doing it, probably because it was packed in oil like a brake rotor and cleaning it adequately for the paint to not be a waste would be annoying. So I'll live with a rusty water pump.

    Plus, there's that whole bit about the uncertainty of how long this car will even exist. Time will tell I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    Gah, I hate that feeling. That is why I try to do much of that stuff by hand and with a ratchet smaller than what would be convenient. I was changing the thermostat out in Ashley's new C1500 a few weeks ago. Torque spec for the housing was 15 or 25ftlbs if I remember right. Well, I went and got my torque wrench all configured but it didn't feel right so I just did it by hand to avoid stripping out the aluminum threads. No leaks.. yet.
    That's the thing...I was turning the socket by hand and it stripped out. I couldn't have been gentler if I tried. So that will be difficult to fix correctly; bolt diameter is limited by the pump and proximity to water passages (can't drill the hole bigger, it's a leak risk). A new thread insert would be the way to go. If I have sealing issues I will pursue that. Got too much into it in RTV to waste by pulling it apart again now, best to run it and see what happens I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    I just don't like peach. My usual yogurt consumption is in smoothie form. Yogurt, a little milk, and a bunch of whatever fruit I have on hand. Frozen fruit is perfect for this, kinda makes it like drinking a fruit-flavored milk shake. Less fattening since I use nonfat yogurt, and fruit is good for you anyway. Some of the berry mixes are a little too tart, but mixing in some applesauce will sweeten it right up.
    Funny...I used points from my credit card to get a blender specifically because I love smoothies but hate paying for them. It's been sitting in my cupboard for about 4 years, I'd guess, and I haven't made a single smoothie. But on the bright side, maybe, it stopped me from buying them elsewhere because "I could make that at home for cheaper".

    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 & 4/2019 | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards

  19. #399
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    my blender came from a thrift store. Its a goldenrod 1970s Waring that I think would puree rocks

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  20. #400
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgSPsWA5kaY


    I don't understand why the car have no floor?!






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