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kishy's 1985 Country Squire

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    Good reminder to others to keep a spare TFI module in the vehicle. I have had many go bad, some on the road. Need to bring the special tool to make the switch easily. Glad you got the car going.

    Comment


      Yeah, nice diagnosis. My '85 would sometimes die at random at stoplights too. Before I figured out that it was probably the TFI module, I ended up selling the car. (Least I don't think I ever fixed that..) I got lucky in the sense it always fired back up.
      1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
      1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

      Comment


        Thanks folks. Indeed, there are some items we should carry as spares because they're relatively easy roadside fixes. The diagnostic tree is certainly not for everyone, but having the parts to enable a roadside fix while being walked through diag on the phone is still beneficial even if you're not great on the diag side of things.

        Last night, I pulled the module off, cleaned up the surface, put on some new thermal compound, reinstalled, and timed it. I will continue running the E3xx module from the spares kit, and just put another of my known-decent parts in the spares kit to replace it. The history of this part is not known and maybe it will prove unreliable, but at this point I don't really have any issues taking that gamble because it wasn't too bad as far as roadside fixes go.

        I also set about putting a spare fuel pump relay in the kit, but ran into issues doing this. I did not have any junkyard-harvested green Ford original fuel pump relays, but I did have two junkyard-harvested green third party relays, as well as a yellow one that fits both the ECM and FP relay sockets (no keying).

        Testing shows that the two green third party relays run the fuel pump at all times except when the key is in run. This means the terminals are incorrectly mapped inside the relay. The yellow relay does nothing at all. I think these were all harvested off EEC-III cars, so perhaps the relays between III and IV are actually quite different despite the same connector and keying.

        Current driver: Ranger
        Panthers: 83 GM 2dr | 84 TC | 85 CS
        | 88 TC | 91 GM
        Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 91 Acclaim | 05 Focus
        Gone: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | 86 GM
        | Junkyards

        Comment


          don't have a wagon but a pickup with a cap has similar airflow characteristics. I can tell you from experience with mine, the back window gets filthy very quickly, and I suspect a functionally similar spoiler to blow air across it rather than serving as a big low pressure area for crap kicked up from the tires to stick to would be a huge help. I drove to Ohio in February and I'd get maybe 60 miles down the highway in the intermittent snow/slush/ick before the back window was too dirty to see anything but headlights through.


          I've had two EEC-IV breakdowns. Once was a TFI module on the Towncar the day after a massive overheat caused by a water pump gasket failure. The other was the magnet in the pickup on my Mark VII. Both times got the same fix, I called someone for a spare distributor and stuck it in on the side of the road. Apparently I ought to start carrying a distributor.
          86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
          5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

          91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

          1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

          Originally posted by phayzer5
          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

          Comment


            oh and there was that one time I thought I had a TFI module failure but it was the gear fell off the cam. And the time I thought the fuel pump crapped out but it was the inertia switch. Fixed with a tow and randomly bumping the wires and noticing the connector was melted respectively.
            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

            Originally posted by phayzer5
            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

            Comment


              Whenever I road trip the Town Car that's exactly what I do, carry a spare dizzy and timing light. Fortunately, I've never needed it.

              Yes, Chrysler wagons from the mid or late 60's started having spoilers as standard. Back when advertisements actually demonstrated useful or practical things they showed their cars going down dirt roads alongside the competition. Then they compared the dust left behind on the rear window- the Chryslers were always cleaner or spotless: (Fast forward to about the 4:30 mark)
              1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
              1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

              Comment


                I remember how happy I was to see that Spoiler still hanging out at that yard. What a lucky lucky score. And all the fasteners came out without struggle.

                A very well traveled, international roof spoiler - congratulations and enjoy sir!

                I also keep a spare TFI and spare EEC/Fuel pump relay in my car with toolige as needed. Requirements for a box body Ford!
                -Nick M.
                Columbia, SC

                66 Squire, 89 Colony Park, 90 TC, 03 TC, 06 TC, 07 TC (2x)
                03 BMW 540iT, 07 Toyota Tundra SR5 Dbl Cab/5.7 2WD

                Comment


                  First Panther wrenching of the year:

                  In November, I had issues starting the wagon which I attributed to the starter motor itself. This was determined in large part by my friend who tried to jump the solenoid with a toonie ($2 coin) and found the starter still did not crank, and the toonie became immediately so hot he had to throw it. This car still has the old style big chubby starter. I reasoned in my head that the starter may have been stopped in an exact position that made bad contact with the brushes or somehow enabled a direct short, and my friend added the possibility that the winding insulation was bad and shorting that way. I hooked a booster pack to it and tried to crank it a bunch of times; eventually it did, slowly, and came to life.

                  The car has been parked since that waiting for me to finish with the Ranger and work up the motivation to swap the starter. I bought it shortly after the problem developed. Sticking with the old school type on this one - bad reason, but I like the sound.

                  Today, I put the car up on ramps and decided to tackle it. First impressions getting under there are that the leaks (and the evidence of past leaks, since fixed) have not gotten better. Also appears the trans cooler line fittings in the rad are leaking. Those are the ones I put new O-rings in sort of recently; I'll try to get some X-rings as gadget suggested previously and see how that pans out.

                  Status update on these ones: still here.














                  At some point years ago, I had this starter out to replace the cable feeding it, as well as run the small second wire should I later choose to upgrade to a PMGR starter. At that time, I also replaced the bolts with ones with a 1/2" head. That did actually make this easier than it sometimes can be.

                  New starter in, no crank, acts like huge short to ground again. Check battery. 11.8V. Yeah, with the chubby starter that isn't gonna cut it. Put some volts back into the battery for a while then tried again. Nice fast crank, no issues. I am wondering if the main body ground to the engine is maybe a little lacking, but the battery to engine ground is newer and perfect.

                  This is parked seasonally, so it's going back into hibernation for a while. Starter replaced 2023-01-07 with odometer showing 91,999km.
                  Last edited by kishy; 01-07-2023, 05:00 PM.

                  Current driver: Ranger
                  Panthers: 83 GM 2dr | 84 TC | 85 CS
                  | 88 TC | 91 GM
                  Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 91 Acclaim | 05 Focus
                  Gone: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | 86 GM
                  | Junkyards

                  Comment


                    I don't mind the big starter either. Don't have anything high compression so there isn't a need for the higher torque job, and with a good battery it rolls the engine over more than well enough to get proper starts. The 86 has the same starter I put on back in 2005 when the original went "nope", the Mark VII and the diesel both have a gear reducer type as originally installed. Kinda admit I like the sound of the old starter too. Definitely sounds more old school.
                    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                    Originally posted by phayzer5
                    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                    Comment


                      I too like the sound of the old starter. Adds to the overall nostalgia of the car. Even my dad commented once, "Oh I remember that sound. Been awhile since I've heard a starter like that."
                      1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
                      1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

                      Comment


                        OK, wagon's got an electrical problem. It is surely the same problem which has caused the recent starting issues, but I now have more context.

                        Today, there has been a pretty fierce ice storm brewing, and I decided tonight to get the wagon and 84 Town Car out from under the apple tree they're currently under. Not a lot of tree, so not a lot of risk, but still, moving cars is easier than fighting with insurance or replacing pieces.

                        The 84 started without difficulty and I got it out of the way. The wagon, different story.

                        Its battery has been on an automatic charger since the last post in this thread, until about a week ago when I put the charger on a different battery. I checked the wagon battery and found it at 12.60V, which should indicate a fully charged (but stabilized) and probably healthy battery. I put it in the wagon and found that when I turn the key to run, it acts like there's a huge short to ground somewhere.

                        With key off:
                        Battery - to starter relay post shows battery voltage
                        Battery - to the circuit breaker which hangs off that same starter relay post also shows battery voltage
                        Interior dome light works, however, as the door chime chimes, the dome light gently flickers in sync with the door chime. This anomaly has always been present but I'll note it in case it becomes relevant.

                        With key in run:
                        Battery - to starter relay post shows about half a volt less than unloaded battery voltage
                        Battery - to the circuit breaker shows 5V
                        Interior dome light basically stops working when key is in run, and the cluster bulbs that turn on with key in run (oil light for example) come on but only very dim.
                        Engine will not crank, not even a clunk from the relay, and headlights do not illuminate.
                        To me, this screams a short somewhere on one of the circuits fed off that circuit breaker and switched by ignition...which seems not to be doing its job though I do not know its rating...and unfortunately I believe that feeds most of the vehicle's electronics.

                        The weather was too hostile to look at this any closer tonight so I pulled the battery back out, made sure there was no evidence of a fire starting, and came back inside.

                        This car's interior wiring is mostly undisturbed, with one exception being a dash cam hardwire kit which is taking fused power directly from both a hot-at-all-times and also a switched hot in the fuse panel. It is worth noting that the original harness is pretty crunchy in places and insulation could have come off.

                        The ignition switch feels like it operates properly, not the oddly mushy feeling they get when they fall apart. No guarantees of course.
                        Last edited by kishy; 02-23-2023, 01:19 AM.

                        Current driver: Ranger
                        Panthers: 83 GM 2dr | 84 TC | 85 CS
                        | 88 TC | 91 GM
                        Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 91 Acclaim | 05 Focus
                        Gone: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | 86 GM
                        | Junkyards

                        Comment


                          Just try that wagon battery in another vehicle just to completely rule out the battery.

                          I understand your suspicions regarding the voltage readings when key in run but rule out all the easy things first.
                          ~David~

                          My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
                          My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

                          Originally posted by ootdega
                          My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

                          Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
                          But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

                          Originally posted by gadget73
                          my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




                          Comment


                            Could be the ignition switch shorting out and causing a draw. If the weather breaks you can do a draw test. Have also seen batteries with good voltage readings but not enough amps to start a car. Having a good quality jump starter (like the NOCOs I recommended to Toploader) would really help until you can find the problem and repair. As Dave said you can swap batteries to at least verify the current battery condition. I know, tough to do when the weathers is not cooperating!
                            What I Own: 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
                            What I Help Maintain: 1996 CV / 1988 CV / 1988 Tempo

                            Comment


                              If there is enough of a short to drop a half volt across a foot of 4 awg wire, smoke will be coming out of somewhere. None of the switched circuits can handle that much current without blowing fuses or fuse links. I suspect you've got a junk battery cable.
                              86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                              5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                              91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                              1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                              Originally posted by phayzer5
                              I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by kishy View Post
                                This car's interior wiring is mostly undisturbed, with one exception being a dash cam hardwire kit which is taking fused power directly from both a hot-at-all-times and also a switched hot in the fuse panel. It is worth noting that the original harness is pretty crunchy in places and insulation could have come off.
                                .
                                Disconnect that dashcam hot wired lead. The cutout voltage on those things is too low and will drain your battery to the point of not wanting to start.

                                Your key in run voltage raises a flag for me that your voltage at the circuit breaker is only 5v. Thats an awfully short distance to have a drop like that. Does the battery cable get warm? Whats the voltage drop across the cable? (one lead on the battery + and the other lead on that circuit breaker contact you are measuring at. Anything more than a volt there you got some dirty contacts.

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