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Thread: kishy's 1985 Country Squire

  1. #881
    Still Wrenchin'! friskyfrankie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    The other thing I've found to cause severe hunting of the cruise speed is a vac leak on the dump valve. Had the bad pot thing on the Conti, though it was actually broken wiring to it rather than the pot in my case. Fox CC units unplug only at the control unit under the dash, the servo has about 20" of wire attached to it and a large oval grommet right in the middle of it all. Somehow, a previous clown managed to get the wiring out of the grommet, then re-installed the grommet and ran the wire between the grommet and the metal firewall. The wire broke where it was jammed between those bits, almost like you aren't supposed to make sharp bends in wire against sharp metal things.

    ended up swapping the whole servo with a donor unit from a Tbird that wasn't all screwed up.
    Where is the dump valve located? I know it may be different by model or is it standard? Are we talking about ny the brake switch by the brake pedal?
    What I Own: 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
    What I Help Maintain: 1996 CV / 1988 CV / 1988 Tempo

  2. #882
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    its up above the brake pedal, serves as the backup method to shut off the cruise if something in the electrical circuit of the brake lights quits working. I think they quit doing it by the early 90s but boxes all had it. Fox cars of the era too. It connects to the Y fitting that connects the servo side of the diaphragm to the control side, if that gets opened it forces the servo to release. If it leaks the servo slowly releases and keeps getting re-applied.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  3. #883
    Still Wrenchin'! friskyfrankie's Avatar
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    Many thanks! Will have to look into it for my friend's '88 CV as he has had that cruise control problem for many years. Wonder what the part number would be - I need to research that one!
    What I Own: 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
    What I Help Maintain: 1996 CV / 1988 CV / 1988 Tempo

  4. #884
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87gtVIC View Post
    Did she go WOT once car was turned on with vacuum lines backwards to the servo?

    Following what you come up with ultimately for the bluetooth mod. I like the idea of things hidden so everything appears as stock.

    I settled (or compromised) on doing this: http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...l=1#post848607

    with something very very similar to this: https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-FM-...s%2C419&sr=8-3

    And I LOVE IT. SO damn easy to connect. work fantastic and was very affordable. It is the lazy man option!
    WOT, indeed. I flipped the key off real quick, but it still sounded like it got pretty high up there.

    In case I was not clear, this FM solution intercepts the antenna cable, and outputs the FM frequency directly onto the cable. In theory this should dramatically cut down on the opportunities for the FM transmitter to suck, but I'm not sure that they really ever do, since all the ones I've messed with work fine. I'm just looking for an option that's friendly to being concealed inside the dash and hardwired so I don't have to look at it or have a pile of accessories sitting on the trans tunnel. Your install is really slick. Putting an additional power point (perhaps just something that natively will support some high-amp USB type C charging) would be a useful mod for me, for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    The other thing I've found to cause severe hunting of the cruise speed is a vac leak on the dump valve. Had the bad pot thing on the Conti, though it was actually broken wiring to it rather than the pot in my case. Fox CC units unplug only at the control unit under the dash, the servo has about 20" of wire attached to it and a large oval grommet right in the middle of it all. Somehow, a previous clown managed to get the wiring out of the grommet, then re-installed the grommet and ran the wire between the grommet and the metal firewall. The wire broke where it was jammed between those bits, almost like you aren't supposed to make sharp bends in wire against sharp metal things.

    ended up swapping the whole servo with a donor unit from a Tbird that wasn't all screwed up.
    I had considered a vacuum leak but the throttle action was way too definitive and switchy. Very on/off, nothing gradual about it. Could feel it yank the pedal out from under my foot then give it back to me. I figured that had to be on the controls side of things. Either bad data making it think that's the right thing to do, or the right data with a worn component.

    I'm surprised the Fox part isn't the same. Presumably electrically compatible, just with a weird hardwired pigtail thing.

    It occurs to me that my problem could have been contact at the connector going into the servo and the act of unplugging/replugging corrected it, but either way, I touched things and now it works, so I touched the right thing at some point in the process.

    Referring back to an earlier issue in this thread, I also harvested the cruise amplifier connectors from the junkyard '83 TC, because they were both the shiny gray plastic rather than the chalky brittle beige stuff, as well as the amplifier itself. Opening that up, it's a remarkably simple device. Super friendly to DIY refurbishing if a cap pops or something burns, as long as it's not the IC.

    Current drivers: 84 TC | 85 CS
    Panthers, Parked: 83 GM 2dr | 86 GM | 88 TC | 91 GM
    Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 05 Focus
    RIP: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | Junkyards

  5. #885
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kishy View Post
    In case I was not clear, this FM solution intercepts the antenna cable, and outputs the FM frequency directly onto the cable. In theory this should dramatically cut down on the opportunities for the FM transmitter to suck, but I'm not sure that they really ever do, since all the ones I've messed with work fine.
    Oops I missed that detail the first go around. Nice!
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by ootdega View Post
    My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."
    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  6. #886
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    exactly the same hardware, just with a tail. It lives down inside the driver's side fender on a Fox car, probably didnt want the plug for moisture reasons.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  7. #887
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    Cruise is maybe not fixed. I found a specific speed yesterday, I think about 55MPH that just wouldn't hold, while faster would hold but traffic conditions had me wanting to fall back a bit. More investigation required.

    Early yesterday morning, I was up to wash the wagon and get it to registration for the Detroit Concours d'Lemons. I had gone to bed for a nap Friday around 6PM and didn't wake up until 3:30AMish, so naturally, I was washing the car at about 4:30AM...and from there I was up for the rest of the day. Consequently, I slept great last night.

    I took advantage of the totally deserted late night carwash experience and filled a bucket to use a wash sponge. I also peeled off a lot of the plastic wrap from the aluminum borders on the woodgrain which really cleaned up the appearance. There was a lot of dirt under the plastic.








    Current drivers: 84 TC | 85 CS
    Panthers, Parked: 83 GM 2dr | 86 GM | 88 TC | 91 GM
    Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 05 Focus
    RIP: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | Junkyards

  8. #888
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    That photo on the fogy roadway is just too damn nice.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by ootdega View Post
    My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."
    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  9. #889
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87gtVIC View Post
    That photo on the fogy roadway is just too damn nice.
    Thanks, I definitely like it. It has some typical "phone camera" issues like the band of light across the top due to the street light, but that's one I like a fair bit.


    Revisiting the vibration issue.
    History: significant whole-car vibration coming on at higher road speeds and very intense at highway speeds.
    U-joints new before I put the car on the road initially.
    Chasing this, I swapped wheels and put on new tires, no fix.
    Rebalanced the wheels 2 additional times, one with a different balancer, no fix.
    Replaced transmission mount, no fix.
    Swapped driveshaft, U-joints and yokes from the 86MGM (also new U-joints), no fix.
    I had put the rear end of the car in the air and ran it up to speed and observed with the axle hanging (frame on stands), the axle violently shook.
    It had been suggested here that it could have been the drums. Whichever one of you said that, give yourself a cookie.

    At my friend's shop tonight, we jacked the car up and removed the wheels and drums. No vibration.

    We put the drums on the wheel balancer. Driver side first. One factory-installed weight already exists, I'll guesstimate it at 1.5oz. The balancer indicated this drum was 1.5oz out of balance, immediately beside the existing weight. Comparing against the other drum, the other one has two weights, so it's possible one fell off/was poorly welded on/maybe got forgotten on this one. As a temp fix to test if it makes a difference, we put on 1.5oz of sticky weights on the outside of the drum in the right spot.

    We then checked the passenger side drum. 6.75oz.
    Six point seven five ounces out of balance.
    Visible runout when it spins, too.
    Seems the cast part was drilled off-centre.



    At this point we started pricing brake drums. However, wanting to determine this was the sole cause, we decided to bring it into balance by taking some material off and seeing how it behaves.

    After a lot of grinding, we got it down to the point of only being 1.00oz off, and decided to give it a test drive. Smooth as glass all the way up to, at, and well beyond normal highway speed.

    Always worth remembering that just because it's new, it isn't necessarily good, and that absolutely can apply to a simple cast and machined part such as a brake drum.

    I'm going to run this as it is now. Plenty of thickness left on the drum, I'm not worried about cracking it. It is ugly but fortunately nobody can see it. Except you. Shhhhh.


    Current drivers: 84 TC | 85 CS
    Panthers, Parked: 83 GM 2dr | 86 GM | 88 TC | 91 GM
    Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 05 Focus
    RIP: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | Junkyards

  10. #890
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    That is some find and solution you have there. Who would ever have thought that would have been the problem...aside form whoever it was that mentioned it could be the brakes. Damn.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by ootdega View Post
    My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."
    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  11. #891
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    something I find amusing is that people will tell you that rear wheel balance doesn't make any difference on a solid axle car that is used at normal highway speeds. Never even heard of anyone mention drums. Clearly the theory that balance in the back doesn't matter is nonsense.

    I mean it makes perfect sense, get it far enough out of whack and it wants to run in an oblong, not rotate in a circle. I'm sure its less critical than if it were up front, but nearly 7 ounces out is pretty significant.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  12. #892
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    Weight reduction and smoother ride, a win-win. Makes me want to check my brake drums. Both mine have vibes 60mph+.
    1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
    1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

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  13. #893
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    My 90 CV has a noticeable vibration at 45 mph. Most noticeable when it is not in OD. When in OD the vibration is minimal.
    Never heard of brake drums being the problem. Interesting fix.

  14. #894
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    I like your fix.

  15. #895
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    Interesting seeing the feedback this has gotten. The friend who ground it down posted the pics in a prominent Facebook group and got absolutely roasted for it - as he knew he would - with lots of "why not just buy a new $20 drum"-type remarks.

    First: there haven't been 20 dollar drums at retail in 20 years. Maybe 30. Maybe never.
    Second: by several anecdotal reports, it sounds like even if you spend real money for your brake parts, most new rotors and drums are cheaply-cast trash and it's hard to get anything where the concepts of precision manufacturing or employees taking pride in their work were remotely considered.

    There is definitely a risk of heat-related cracking in the area that has been thinned out, and there is also a risk that there could be a casting void somewhere opposite that area. Although it is visibly drilled off-centre, I don't think it's off by enough to make up that much weight all by itself, so there could be another issue hiding within. Additionally, we only got it to 1oz off, and at "well above highway speed", there is a wheel-speed-related vibration that does come on. But that speed was only reached to try to feel out where the vibration went (the result being "it moved up on the speed scale"), and isn't a speed I drive at.

    I do have two more of the same drums new in box still, for my other axle with 11" brakes (which is currently not on a car). The plan is to run those on the balancer to see what we find.

    I let one of my American friends drive the car today during our junkyard and food travels. He is thoroughly impressed with all aspects of it. He's wanting to pick up a Caprice wagon in comparable condition now...but that's a tough thing to find. The condition of this car is hard to match.




    Current drivers: 84 TC | 85 CS
    Panthers, Parked: 83 GM 2dr | 86 GM | 88 TC | 91 GM
    Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 05 Focus
    RIP: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | Junkyards

  16. #896
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    if you really want to balance it even better, attach a weight on the face in the area where it got thinned out. Not sure about welding or brazing for risk of warping the thing but I bet you could clean the face up with a gasket grinder and JB Weld something in place to get it pretty damn good.

    being off center has a fairly big effect on the balance too. Its not just the weight, but the circle the mass rotates in.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  17. #897
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    While I was working parts, I’d offer to cut new drums before they even left the store. Virtually not a single one was properly round. They would drag rotationally otherwise on a car until something wore down enough.

    Absolutely awful castings in that regard, but usually after they were cleaned up, they worked well without vibration issues.

    My Cars:
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  18. #898
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    thats a good point too, if its touching / not touching repeatedly it will make it shake.

    i get that castings can be off center but the machined surface should be true, unless they center it on the OD rather than on the bolt circle. That would be dumb.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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