PotM GrandMarq.NET - Panther Headquarters Forum Index PotM
GMN Chat Room GMN's STORE!! GMN's Gallery Please!!
Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: 351w in '86 TC?

  1. #1
    Member SirFoxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Gladstone, MO
    Posts
    36

    Default 351w in '86 TC?

    Hello--

    I need some advice on a soon-to-be project. I have an '86 TC, 147k miles on the clock. Someone at my work told me he has a freshly machined 351w that he is willing to give to me (not sure if its a roller or flat tappet). I haven't seen it yet, nor do I know what all its coming with it. Regardless, I was wondering if this has done before by someone on this forum. I have never worked with a 351w, nor do I know what combo of parts I should use. I would like to keep my EFI, but some modification will need to be done from what I could find. I need to convert to MAF, and get an HO computer as well. So, my questions so far are:

    1. I'm not very familiar with the "learnability" of these computers. I was wondering if the DY3 computer from a MkVII HO would work with this (as oppose to an A9L/A9P).
    2. Intakes. I plan on using a truck lower, and stick with the HO upper (for now), along with an intake adapter. Does this seem like an o.k. combo for now?
    3. Cam. Not even sure where to start. I'm not looking for a race car, but if I put my foot down, I'd like it to get up and go. Any suggestions?

    Any and all suggestions are welcome!

  2. #2
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    33,896

    Default

    1) highly unlikely. They won't deal with a 5.0 HO that has good heads most of the time. \
    2) I wouldn't. Sounds restrictive, and probably too tall besides. Professional Products makes an Edelbrock clone that will likely work. Its Chinesium but probably flows and fits better.
    3) need to know if roller or not, and what heads.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body, 246k and counting

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  3. #3
    Fastest Box In South Jersey 86VickyLX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Westmont, New Jersey
    Posts
    10,013

    Default

    1) No. Not without a special tune. And the Mass Air computers are just as bad, just easier to tune
    2) No, unless you like cutting holes in the hood. Get an aftermarket intake or run the lightning stuff.
    3) What year is the block?
    "Vicky" 1986 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX ..................................."Blue" 1992 Mercury Grand Marquis LS

    Vicky
    Too much stuff to list in my signature...
    Blue
    Mods So Far:
    5.0 HO Swap from 92 Cougar, GT40 Intakes With Remanufactured GT40P Heads, Contour Cooling Fans, Autodimming Mirror With Compass, Frankensteined but fully functional JBL Premium Sound System, Working A/C, Big Front Brake Swap, more mods to come soon!

  4. #4
    GMN Regular knucklehead0202's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Southern Commiefornia
    Posts
    1,395

    Default

    A MAF computer would "learn" enough to run half-decent but tuning definitely makes the difference.
    As the others said, Lightning/GT40 or the pro/products(which is a decent intake). HO is shite.
    If it's a roller block or you use link-bar roller lifters(either or is better than flat but YMMV) Roller stuff any 5.0 off-the-shelf would help or talk to Ed Curtis at FTI and have him make you a custom grind based on your setup.

    What heads are you running?

    Far as getting it in there, these cars were available with 351's so that's not an issues. Intake clearance may be tight but should be doable. 351 swap headers for fox should work. Other intake shit is pretty interchangeable. Accessory bracketry may get tricky unless the engine comes with it and you're getting rid of shit or able to fab/move things like a/c compressor.

  5. #5
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    33,896

    Default

    The only bracket thats specific is the AC one. The stuff on the other side fits fine.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body, 246k and counting

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  6. #6
    Fastest Box In South Jersey 86VickyLX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Westmont, New Jersey
    Posts
    10,013

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by knucklehead0202 View Post
    A MAF computer would "learn" enough to run half-decent but tuning definitely makes the difference
    It may attempt to run. I doubt it's gonna run worth barely idle without a tune. Need a good MAF with a known curve, good injectors with known values and you're halfway there! I wouldn't attempt to even fire the thing without at least 24lb injectors with any good intake/heads.
    "Vicky" 1986 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX ..................................."Blue" 1992 Mercury Grand Marquis LS

    Vicky
    Too much stuff to list in my signature...
    Blue
    Mods So Far:
    5.0 HO Swap from 92 Cougar, GT40 Intakes With Remanufactured GT40P Heads, Contour Cooling Fans, Autodimming Mirror With Compass, Frankensteined but fully functional JBL Premium Sound System, Working A/C, Big Front Brake Swap, more mods to come soon!

  7. #7
    Cheese Nazi phayzer5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    3,677

    Default

    I've got a 351 in my towncars, but they're both carbed, so I can't help you there. The actual swap part is no issue, just get 351w swap headers, and an off-road h-pipe cheap from the stang forum folks. Timing cover forward is the same, except for ac (I didn't use it)

    I dont know that we have any efi 351w towncars here. The only ones I know of are carbed. I believe our hood gives a bit more clearance over the cv/gm from the center shape

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

    RIP Jason P Harril, we'll miss ya bro

    '80 Continental Town Coupé
    '84 Towncar - Teh Cobra TC, 408w powered
    '16 Ram 1500 CC Outdoorsman, Hemi/3.92/8sp 4x4

  8. #8
    Member SirFoxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Gladstone, MO
    Posts
    36

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I've got a 351 in my towncars, but they're both carbed, so I can't help you there. The actual swap part is no issue, just get 351w swap headers, and an off-road h-pipe cheap from the stang forum folks. Timing cover forward is the same, except for ac (I didn't use it)

    I dont know that we have any efi 351w towncars here. The only ones I know of are carbed. I believe our hood gives a bit more clearance over the cv/gm from the center shape
    What part combo's do you have on yours? I was thinking about going with an edelbrock 600cfm carb with a performer lower intake as getting efi to work will be out of my budget. As for heads, I'm not sure what to use. I have 289 HiPo heads, E7's and a pair of crap E6's. Should I find a set of gt40's or...?

    What are you using for heads and headers?

    Would my lincoln logs work or do I need to buy different headers?

  9. #9
    Cheese Nazi phayzer5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    3,677

    Default

    My '80 coupe is a bone stock 351w with the factory 2150 2bbl.

    My '84 is basically the other extreme - a forged 408w stroker, 10:1 comp, Isky 280 cam, iron RHS 200 heads, Vic Jr and a Pro-Systems 750hp carb, with a wide-ratio AOD and disc 3.55 trak-lok rear end pushing it. It uses a custom h pipe exhaust without cats (whats xalled "off-road", b/c no emissions in FL) but with the head pipes from a mustang h-pipe so I can still use factory headers. I had 302 mustang shorties on the old engine with this exhaust, so it was a simple upgrade to mustang 351w swap shorties with the new motor.

    The body on the 84 4-dr has more rust issues than I care to fix, so I found an 80 coupe to put my efforts towards. It will have all the go fast goodies swapped into it over time. The paint is nearly an identical color and the body styles are the same, so nearly every part swaps over except for the door-specific stuff, and even then I can use the 84 for patch panels to fix the doors if/when they rust out

    The Edelbrock 600 and rpm intake was a perfect combo for me on my 84's original engine. I had some lightly ported e7s and a 35-235-3 Comp Cams bumpstick in it for awhile that put down 190 HP on a dyno. Fun car to drive for its size, and got ~20mpg with 3.55s.

    You could use Lincoln log manifolds, but with the availability of cheap mustang parts, its not really the best use of time/money for the benefits. Gt-40s would be an even better upgrade over e7s, especially with a good cam to make use of them. You gotta just figure out a power level you're happy with and/or a budget to spend. Horsepower is a slippery slope

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

    RIP Jason P Harril, we'll miss ya bro

    '80 Continental Town Coupé
    '84 Towncar - Teh Cobra TC, 408w powered
    '16 Ram 1500 CC Outdoorsman, Hemi/3.92/8sp 4x4

  10. #10
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    33,896

    Default

    GT40 on a 351 is about the bare minimum. If you want real power, I'd go for something better. Same with headers, the logs are sufficient for the stock motor but real power wants more flow.

    Honestly unless you're gonna put some decent parts on it you may as well keep the 302. A 351 with crappy top end will perform about the same, cost a lot to assemble the EFI for, and just burn more fuel.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body, 246k and counting

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  11. #11
    Member SirFoxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Gladstone, MO
    Posts
    36

    Default

    What heads and manifolds would you recommend? I'm still new to this motor, so I don't know what my options are. I'm not looking to make a crap ton of power, nor am I looking to spend a boat load of money. I still need to pick up the motor and see if it is a roller or flat tappet block.
    Last edited by SirFoxx; 07-16-2017 at 01:59 AM.

  12. #12
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    33,896

    Default

    Largely its a 302, but it needs more air. GT40's would be a minimum start point, but it could do with more. One of those Professional Products Edelbrock clone intakes would do, and 351 swap headers. That should get you something that at least runs decently without spending a ton. If you can afford better heads, or find better heads for a reasonable price, do it. The more air you can get in and out, the more power it will make. A nice set of AFR heads wouldn't hurt it a bit.

    sad fact is you can do the same stuff to a 302 and it would likely make comparable power. The 351 has the potential to be a runner, but they're usually so choked that they don't actually do much better than the 302 does. From the factory they usually had the same crappy heads that weren't enough for a 302, and its just that much worse with another 50 cubes. the GT40 was about the best flowing head Ford ever put on a 302 and there are still aftermarket options that blow those completely out of the water.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body, 246k and counting

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  13. #13
    Member SirFoxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Gladstone, MO
    Posts
    36

    Default

    Well, I will probably stick with the gt40's as a start until I can save for a decent set of aluminums. I understand that ford heads suck, but I can't exactly fork out $1500 for a decent set of heads right now.

    As for the block, it is a C9OE-6015-C. .040" bored over, and even came with a street boss lower intake. Seeing that it is a flat tappet motor, what kind of cam should I look for / should I buy?

  14. #14
    Member lincolnlarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    N.E. Ohio
    Posts
    452

    Default

    I'm not real up on all the interchange for the Windsor but do the heads from a 289 bolt onto the 351?
    If so, take a look at those e7 next to the 289 heads. HiPo heads have to move some air to push out 271hp.
    Are you able to take pics side by side? I'm really interested!

    89 LTC 429>557 Cobrajet stroker
    13 F-150 XLT 6.2 l
    "If I could separate what's real from what I've been dreaming I could live to fight another day"

  15. #15
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    33,896

    Default

    The old HiPo heads actually don't flow as well as the GT40 heads. Also consider those were gross HP numbers. Back to back, I'd wager they don't do all that much better than an E7 does. The other problem with old heads is the lack of hard valve seats. Not free to have that fixed.

    Windsor heads more or less interchange, but 260/289/302 uses a 7/16" head bolt. The 351w uses a 1/2". Not all of the heads have holes large enough to pass the bigger bolt. They can be drilled though. I think the GT40's have the 1/2" holes, not totally sure about the P heads.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body, 246k and counting

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  16. #16
    Full of Greenhouse Gas Tiggie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Moneta, VA
    Posts
    4,006

    Default

    Just a thought - where did the heads for the 351 go? Did you get them with it or just a short block? If you have the 69-74ish 351 heads, they are comparable to the GT-40's other than hardened seats. Not great but fair for a stock head.

    The 289 HP heads should go to a collector. They are just regular 289 heads with screw in rocker arm studs and pockets for the valve springs. Valuable for show use and little else beside cruising.
    1988 Crown Vic Wagon - daily
    1990 Country Squire - yard ornament (save me please)
    Other: 95 Ranger, 74 F250, 68 Mustang, 94 Mustang
    Sold: 1982 LTD and 1987 Crown Vic

    GMN Box Panther History
    Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
    Box Panther Production Numbers

  17. #17
    Member lincolnlarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    N.E. Ohio
    Posts
    452

    Default

    Yup, found the numbers not that great. Only about 10cfm over the e7s.

    89 LTC 429>557 Cobrajet stroker
    13 F-150 XLT 6.2 l
    "If I could separate what's real from what I've been dreaming I could live to fight another day"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
GMN Approved Links!


www.rockauto.com www.adtr.net