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Early box driver seat prone to bending?

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    Early box driver seat prone to bending?

    Over the last 5 years in junkyards I've noticed a trend, and it seems to be affecting my own '84 Town Car.

    In earlier years of box, I'm not sure what the cutoff year would be, the driver seat back seems to have a tendency to bend and lean back to the right (no, not back, to the left).

    I know that internally within the seat, only the left hand side hinge has the locking mechanism for recline, and this is true even in seats that do not have recline (weirdly optioned base Lincolns). So, the rigidity of the seat back frame is what keeps the right side of the seat from sinking backwards and bending like I'm describing.

    Is there a specific support bracket, fastener, weld, etc. that breaks inside the seatback causing them to bend back to the right, or is this just an inherent weakness that was fixed in the newer years? Is there possibly an advantage to de-upholstering and disassembling the seats (no small task) to swap in a newer seat back frame? Or is it just coincidence that I've never seen a late box that has this issue?

    Current driver: Ranger
    Panthers: 83 GM 2dr | 84 TC | 85 CS
    | 88 TC | 91 GM
    Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 91 Acclaim | 05 Focus
    Gone: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | 86 GM
    | Junkyards

    #2
    I just did a project on my seats in the 85 to install lumbar support ( and power recline) so i had them apart reciently. I know with the newer style fordthinned out the metal and then the bottom were flexing to fatigue and breaking. In fact most of the cars in the junk yard were broken or had been repaired.

    With the older box i would think it the base that is failing too and not the back. The bases are reinforced where the back connects/ bolt onto the to the base. I cant see where the back would break as its quiet reinforced formed which would provide rigidity. But it probably the mounting surface to seat track at the rear outside corner that is fatiguing and breaking.

    The metal in the area is fit able if you are seeing the seat twist a bit or if it breaks.

    Hope this helps
    Steve

    Comment


      #3
      Forgot to mention. I don't think you want the new seats as bases are weaker for sure. And the power seat track mounting points changed a bit. You could make them work but would take to into the wrong direction...imho
      Last edited by Steveh66; 09-22-2017, 12:49 PM. Reason: grammer

      Comment


        #4
        Steve, I'd be real interested to see that lumbar project. I've seriously considered adding it to my own Towncar. The stock pillow top seats must have been crafted for hunchbacks because that lower section has absolutely nothing for support. I drive around with a towel folded up behind me a lot of times.

        Also inclined to agree the seat frame may be bending. It ain't much. Pull it and have a look, any bending to the frame where the track attaches should be obvious. You may even be able to poke a mirror in there and see enough to know if thats the issue.

        It could be the back frame though, honestly I've never opened one up. Pretty sure there is no recline latch mechanism on the right side though so it would just be the frame holding it square.
        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

        Originally posted by phayzer5
        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

        Comment


          #5
          I have used that towel many of time too. Hopefully i can post a few pics but dont have a lot mid project. Here is what i did.

          Found a 93 Lincoln with the lumbar/power recline and the arm rests with the cup holders.
          Take the whole seat as you will use the whole back, the pump and switch is on the base.
          With the back you will use the 93 seat back frame and your car's foam and cover. The metal back is made a bit different to prevent the lumbar bag from abrasion and being punctured as well as holder to support the bag. When you use your foam on the new frames the metal locate tabs on the foam may be slightly lower than the cutout on the metal backing. Just cut new holes.
          I mounted the lumbar pump in the back of the seat as it fit better there than in the base. The 93 base is slightly different and has a spot in the base for the pump. Your base the pump will not fit in the same space.
          For your lumbar switch it is easy to fit as the ford and Lincolns used the same frames style around the switch and your main power seat switch is in the door panel I believe. So you will have a nice opening in the frame to mount the switch. Just move the bracket and switch mount over. Longer tubbing is need if you relocate the pump to the seat back.
          The ford was a brute as I has to mount the second switch (Lumbar and recline) behind the main power seat switch. Cut, weld, reinforce brutality
          You will be getting the power recline as well as it all part of the seat back. All mounting holes between the base and back are the same.
          Some wiring, upholstery hog rings ( or even plastic wire ties – zip ties) and bit of tubbing and about 3 to 4 hours and you are done.

          Hope this helps
          Steve

          PS I think we just highjacked his original post
          Last edited by Steveh66; 09-22-2017, 05:53 PM.

          Comment


            #6
            The final look... before recovering the arm rest
            Click image for larger version

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            here is what the switch looks like
            Click image for larger version

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            and here is how bad the seat base can fatigue and fail - this is from the 93. ( and to address the original post question)
            Click image for larger version

Name:	Lincoln base.JPG
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            Last edited by Steveh66; 09-22-2017, 05:53 PM.

            Comment


              #7
              What causes that particular seat back issue Kishy speaks of is something known as the "Detroit lean". Unlike the "Cali lean" where the whole chassis is deliberately set up to hang lower in the rear than it does in the front (aka "dragging ass and throwing sparks"), with the Detroit lean you have an ape for a driver who chooses not to sit square in their seat, but instead leans over to the right so their head is right smack in the middle of the car. Why, because gangsta yo! So combine the weight of said ape's upper body with the lack of seat back recline latching mechanism on the inboard side of the seat and you end up with a twisted up or broken seat back frame. Pull the foam off said frame, see where the damage is, bend or weld the thing into its proper shape, done!
              The ones who accomplish true greatness, are the foolish who keep pressing onward.
              The ones who accomplish nothing, are the wise who know when to quit.

              Comment


                #8
                Yeah...the seat bottom has no distortion at all. It's 100% a distortion of the seat back, causing the upper right corner of the seat back to lean back into the back seat area. It can be bent forward again but over the following days will return to how it was.

                My car has never been owned by a member of a demographic that would suggest that sort of driving posture, nor do I drive that way. Not to profile or anything, but really, I don't think "old white people from a rural area/small town" are driving around like that. But maybe he had an abundance of swag, who knows?

                I don't doubt that doing that will force-cause this to occur, but I would say the majority of...pre-85? boxes I see have this deformation happening. This is why I wonder if an extra brace of some kind was added later despite the overall seat design being the same.

                Current driver: Ranger
                Panthers: 83 GM 2dr | 84 TC | 85 CS
                | 88 TC | 91 GM
                Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 91 Acclaim | 05 Focus
                Gone: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | 86 GM
                | Junkyards

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Steveh66 View Post
                  Take the whole seat as you will use the whole back, the pump and switch is on the base.
                  Thats a very useful piece of info, thanks. I was thinking to open up one of those 90s seats and just take the lumbar stuff out to mount it into my seat. I didn't realize the back could be swapped on, sounds like thats the way to go if the thing is made differently to accommodate the bladder.

                  and yeah, threads get hijacked around here a lot. Its seat related though, so not a total derail.
                  86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                  5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                  91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                  1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                  Originally posted by phayzer5
                  I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I have never seen a seat back being bent before but it could happen. They looked fairly strong.

                    One thing I forgot to mention is that you will have to trim up the foam on the back rest. If you compare the 80s one to the newer style with the lumbar you will know what to trim off. Basically you're cutting down the lumbar area. Are used to 12 inch bread knife and a cut beautifully. Very easy to do.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by kishy View Post
                      My car has never been owned by a member of a demographic that would suggest that sort of driving posture, nor do I drive that way. Not to profile or anything, but really, I don't think "old white people from a rural area/small town" are driving around like that. But maybe he had an abundance of swag, who knows?
                      Ah hell, I profile the shit outta them people - if they talk the talk and walk the walk they are what they are, race or skin color be damned.

                      The older person who owned your car before you, was he heavy-set? That's another thing that will break the seat's back (literally), having to support a mountain of a man.

                      When you pull the foam apart, I suspect you will wind that the tubular (totally!) horizontal cross-brace has broken off from the vertical end of the frame. Weld it back up, and do a better job than the factory did (cause it's lousy, you'll see) and you'll be all set IMHO.
                      The ones who accomplish true greatness, are the foolish who keep pressing onward.
                      The ones who accomplish nothing, are the wise who know when to quit.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        People that fetch their wallet out of the back pocket by stretching and leaning back to pick their ass off the seat do it too. My friend's dad always had cars with bent seats from doing that. He was a big guy too. I'm a fat ass but I don't drive with my wallet in my pocket, mostly because its uncomfortable but partly to save the seats.
                        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                        Originally posted by phayzer5
                        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Driving with your wallet in the back pocket is actually bad for your health, it puts pressure on some nerves in there and over time can mess you up. That's actually how you can spot a real good truck driving instructor, he will tell you to put that wallet elsewhere AND also leave the air-ride seat unlocked so it can slide freely as the truck bucks over the crappy roads. It's actually pretty interesting how the smallest things can damage our bodies if repeated often and long enough.
                          The ones who accomplish true greatness, are the foolish who keep pressing onward.
                          The ones who accomplish nothing, are the wise who know when to quit.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            yeah, I stopped with the wallet in the pocket when I noticed pain on that side after driving a while.
                            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                            Originally posted by phayzer5
                            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Kishy,
                              Would you mind posting pics of your seat so we chickens can see this lean for ourselves? I wonder if my seats do that. I don't think so but never paid any attention to it.
                              1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
                              1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

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