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Thread: kishy's 1984 Town Car

  1. #361
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    where would it be storing vacuum though? I don't recall a reservoir for that circuit that could be applied to the dashpot.

    I suspect its meant to leak otherwise it wouldn't release. I don't think the solenoids are internally vented, so if you shut off the vac supply the dashpot would simply hold unless the vacuum was able to leak out. Yes I know it doesn't really leak out, but you know what I mean.

    I thought the owner's manual said to bump the pedal to start it in cold weather? Can't say I've ever read the manual for a CFI car. Its not something I've ever been forced to learn.
    The little plastic vacuum reservoir closer to the brake master is my guess. I believe that one is dedicated to emissions controls and therefore is available to the bank of solenoids. Off the top of my head.

    Agreed re: unable to release, non-vented solenoids. The EGR is applied and vented by two separate solenoids, yet the dashpot is only controlled by one, so it makes sense to have a calibrated leak amount.

    I'll have to review the manual. It's weird. The pedal is definitely moving. Keeping in mind that winter full cold idle speed is about 2000RPM, the dashpot isn't capable of bumping the throttle that far. At full cold idle speed it is possible to cruise out of the driveway onto the road and maintain normal driving speed on city streets, although it takes a bit to reach those speeds (I've tested this and proven it).

    The other possibility I forgot would be the cruise servo, but again, vacuum operated.

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  2. #362
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    I just checked mine and didn't see any pedal movement when turning the key on.

    I don't know if this is normal, but in mine the pedal needs to be pushed all the way to the floor to set the cold-idle cam - a little movement like that wouldn't do a thing.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria
    1977 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
    1992 F-150 XLT 4x4, 351W

    Past: 1995 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor

  3. #363

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    Stocker is correct, like a carb you need to push the gas to the floor before starting so itll catch the fast idle cam.


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  4. #364
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    There are multiple steps on the fast idle cam. The amount of throttle travel I'm seeing when the pedal bumps from presumably stored vacuum is almost enough to catch the first step on the cam. I have approximately double the correct amount of spring tension on my throttle return, so what I'm thinking is that if I correct my amount of throttle return spring tension, that might have an interesting effect.

    It is not necessary to push the pedal to the floor. That just guarantees you hit the highest step on the cam, but in reality you only need to push the pedal less than an inch to get there, and much less than that to get it on a lower step. In warm weather I start mine without touching the pedal and you should be able to do the same.

    Floor the pedal = the cam will always go to the current highest idle step based on the temperature of the thermostat.

    I specifically remember reading that our cars have "no touch starting" which means keep your foot off the pedal, but I can't remember what conditions allow it to happen. It is not 24/7/365.

    Edit: No, I'm definitely wrong. It's the Ranger I'm thinking of. The carb had electronic idle speed control and it featured no-touch starting. 5.0 CFI does not have it, but I think 3.8 CFI does (it also has electronic idle speed control).

    Per the manual, cold starting, push the pedal to the floor (but as I mentioned above, it doesn't actually need to be to the floor)
    Per the manual, warm starting, hold the pedal at 1/4 to 1/2 while cranking and slowly release once engine is running (which explains a lot really)
    Per the manual, if you fail to start trying the above, crank while holding it wide open.
    Last edited by kishy; 07-14-2019 at 11:53 PM.

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  5. #365

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    Cfi is weird isnt it lol. When I totally disabled the fast idle cam on my 85 I had to hold the pedal to help it warm up even in the hot Florida ambient temps.

    As stupid as it sounds I almost want my 85 back just to prove to all the cfi haters they can still be relavent lol. Mine had the classic rolling idle sometimes but let me tell you it never left me stranded. If only it had ac I probably would have kept it. That and no rust.


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  6. #366
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    When I had my '85 it always started in warm weather with the engine cold with no throttle input. I never paid attention enough to see if the throttle moved when flipping the key to run. However, when trying to start it hot, I did indeed have to push the throttle slightly or I could crank it until the battery died. I adjusted my fast cold idle down as low as I could without it surging. Rolling idle was a PITA and my only complaint with the thing. She ran beautifully when warmed up and I think it looked much better under the hood than my SEFI. Although my SEFI '88 runs noticeably smoother than my '85 did. I like CFI, not afraid to admit or ashamed of it. It's much like why I prefer GM TBI over GM Vortec; serviceability.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  7. #367

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    Man I forgot about that, mine used to crank for a longer than usual time and I could never figure out why. It would run like a top once started though.


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  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by kishy View Post
    It is not necessary to push the pedal to the floor. That just guarantees you hit the highest step on the cam, but in reality you only need to push the pedal less than an inch to get there, and much less than that to get it on a lower step. In warm weather I start mine without touching the pedal and you should be able to do the same.
    Something might not be set up correctly with mine then. I usually floor it briskly two or three times, because there's been enough instances of one time not engaging it that it's become a habit. I cleaned everything and re-attached the cam spring that popped off to only minor improvement. Oddly enough, if I work the throttle from under the hood and watch it, the mechanism works exactly like I'd expect it to. (but then, this car also runs worse than any carbureted vehicle I've owned...)
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria
    1977 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
    1992 F-150 XLT 4x4, 351W

    Past: 1995 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor

  9. #369
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    84 Marti report:

    Last edited by kishy; 08-07-2019 at 09:09 PM.

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  10. #370
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Cool.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  11. #371
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    Oil change and chassis lube day for the Lincoln. 199,165km. 3700km change interval; I normally go for 4800 but it was last done in March and the whole short trips thing. Having a take-home company car has significantly reduced the rate at which I put kilometres on my stuff.

    Hoping to catch the rollover to 200,000 in a photo. It isn't a traditionally significant number like "100,000 miles" but I'll only ever see it once. Which I guess is also true of all the other numbers when you've got a 6 digit odometer.


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  12. #372
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    I managed to get mine hitting 200,000 (well, 00000) on video. Mine are in full size miles though, not those fun size ones you guys use.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  13. #373
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    200,000 fun-size miles!





    Purchased at 172,105km in May of 2016, and has been my primary warm weather daily. Since December, I've had a company car so the (short) commute doesn't get rolled onto this one anymore.
    Last edited by kishy; 09-14-2019 at 10:16 AM.

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  14. #374
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    Congrats! Still looking good. God bless company vehicles for personal use. Definitely prolonging the life of this townie.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  15. #375
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    Something occurred to me the other day, while thinking about timing sets, cam gears, fuel pump eccentrics and so on:

    My CFI cars have both been equipped with a fuel pump eccentric, of which there is only one piece...but after doing the timing set on my carb '83, I believe it is a 2-piece eccentric just installed without the second piece.

    Gadget raised a point in the wagon thread around this time last year:

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    Its also there to keep the dowel pin in the cam. Later cars have an L shaped thing in there for that purpose, but possibly it didn't exist in '85.
    When I replaced the timing set in the wagon, I did include that piece. I do not recall if I did so because of Gadget's remark or just because I felt like putting it back in, but the result was it's inside that timing cover.

    However, with the Lincoln which I had done much earlier, I deleted that part.

    What is the likelihood of that dowel pin walking out?

    Pics from 2016:







    I fairly confidently believe that the washer under the cam bolt will not allow the dowel to exit the front of the gear, however, it is not clear to me how long that dowel is, and if the dowel has room within the cam gear to fully exit the camshaft and thus allow the gear to freewheel.

    My earlier theory was: the eccentric was installed on all engines because at that stage of assembly it was not known on the line if the engine would be carb or FI.
    I am leaning towards believing this is not the case, because the "eccentric" in the CFI cars has only been one of the two pieces of the eccentric that went into the carb cars.
    This points to the engineers including the part for the reason gadget pointed out.

    I really don't want to open this one up again, but that would certainly be better than having a catastrophic failure on the road should the dowel come out. Some engine building threads I've found out in the wild suggest that as long as the cam bolt has good clamping force on the gear, the dowel plays no role (and, if the bolt were to start walking out, failure is imminent regardless of good dowel engagement...so maybe it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other?)

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by kishy; 06-30-2020 at 01:15 PM.

    83 GM 2dr POTM 10/2019 | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 & 4/2019 | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards
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  16. #376
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    so long as the washer overlaps the dowel its not going to come out completely, and so long as the cam bolt is tight I doubt the cam gear will move relative to the cam enough to wallow anything out and cause issues.

    the dowel isn't a press fit though, so it can possibly move, but in reality I expect its pinched in there pretty tight by the driving force on the cam so its not like its just hanging out waiting to fall out of position.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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