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Thread: kishy's 1984 Town Car

  1. #261
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Sounds like a crappy regulator. I've never seen one that had to "wind up" like that before. I'd be concerned that it wouldn't maintain voltage reasonably under changing loads.

    There isn't a whole bunch in a regulator really. Voltage divider and a couple of transistors really make up the whole works. If one of those transistors was flaky it might act like this I suppose, or if they went with an overly large value cap and large value resistors in the divider it would take a while to charge up the filter cap if there isn't enough current flow through the divider to not make it act stupid.

    Last edited by gadget73; 09-02-2018 at 10:40 AM.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  2. #262
    Member Giraffe's Avatar
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    Condolences for your grandmother, man. Just got done reading the obituary. What an accomplished life.
    óJohn

    1990 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - getting her back in shape (POTM March 2017)
    1995 Mustang Cobra coupe - keeping it simple
    1966 Mustang coupe - soon-to-be project: no longer buried in junk; out of the garage!

  3. #263
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    She was really something else. Her accomplishments were significant by any metric, but when you consider that she pursued them as a woman emerging from a time in history when women simply didn't do such things, and that she did most of them as a single mom...she was nothing short of a superhero in the women's movement, and graceful about it at every turn. I have original election posters for her run for alderman and mayor, as well as a button pin for the latter, which have always been valued items but even moreso now with her passing.

    There are so many things I wanted to do with and for her in her old age...some light traveling to places we'd always intended to go...but as her health failed it quickly became apparent we couldn't do those things. I will see those sights some day, and I'll have her in my heart when I do.

    Back to the car again...

    The alternator. It's doing some gentle chirping at first start which goes away after 30 seconds or so. I thought maybe the belt was loose...tightened it and it got worse. Angry bearings? Angry brand new bearings? Angry me! Further investigation required. It might be too tight, but there seems to be a very fine line when using the 3G on this belt routing where it's in between "slips a lot and wakes the neighbours" and "makes angry bearing death sounds" so I need to tread carefully.

    I found that the insomnia continued to occur approximately as it did before replacing all the 7/32" lines, so I tested further and verified the check valve is OK, and that the autolamp solenoid (in my application, used as the sole control for the doors) is not.

    My testing, by the way, consists of putting each component under 20 inHg of vacuum and monitoring it periodically over a half hour or more. Any loss of vacuum at all is deemed a fail. The motors checked out, the original lines did not, the reservoir checked out, the check valve does, leaving only the autolamp box outstanding.

    I made a video which you'll find here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sggpi7DCObM



    According to the gauge it should hold for quite a while...surely not "forever" as that's just not realistic, but it should do at least as well as when the parts donor Mark VI was new in 1981. Not using the headlight switch does eliminate an additional failure point so the potential reliability is better.










    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 (Pre-Op) | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards thread/Flickr

  4. #264
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    The problem with belts on these cars is there just isn't enough belt wrap on the alternator. To make the belt not slip, its usually so tight that its abusing the bearings. Not a whole lot you can do for it honestly. If there were some practical means of inserting an idler between the alt and PS pump to let the belt contact a larger portion of the alternator pulley it would probably fix it quite nicely. I just don't know that there is enough room in there to put one.

    of course if the belt and pulleys aren't all clean and in good condition any slippage gets worse. I was having some issues on my car for a while, then the power steering pump started leaking more obviously. Initially it was a fine mist that was getting on the belt enough to cause problems. Once I replaced the pump, the saturated belt, and wiped the pulleys down with acetone to get all the residue off the slippage went away.
    Last edited by gadget73; 09-02-2018 at 11:29 PM.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  5. #265
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    Great video. Enjoyed watching it.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  6. #266
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87gtVIC View Post
    Great video. Enjoyed watching it.
    Thanks. That means it wasn't wasted effort!

    Here we are, 15 hours since the engine last ran, and the doors are still shut. Not the longest record it's held so far, but at least we're back to over 10 hours

    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 (Pre-Op) | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards thread/Flickr

  7. #267
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    I mean I doubt I will ever use the information that was put forth, but it was entertaining.

    Sorry if I missed it within the video but I did not catch what actuates the two vacuum solenoid things that tell the brain box to shut or open the eyes? Is it as simple as an input from the headlight switch?
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87gtVIC View Post
    I mean I doubt I will ever use the information that was put forth, but it was entertaining.

    Sorry if I missed it within the video but I did not catch what actuates the two vacuum solenoid things that tell the brain box to shut or open the eyes? Is it as simple as an input from the headlight switch?
    That little module has 3 wires: ground, battery positive (constant), and "lights on".
    Since the "lights on" needs to cover both high and low beams (so the doors don't shut when you switch to high beams...I dealt with that a while ago), you take the hot from in between the headlight switch and high beam switch. That seems to be how it's done from the factory in a Mark VI.

    The headlight switch normally grounds the lamp end of the circuit when off, which was something I struggled with for a while because I relay modded my headlights (thus, the lamp end of the circuit was isolated from the switch when off).

    Basically, the "lights on" gets 12V when lights are on. This commands one solenoid to slide the valve inside, which flips the lights open. They will stay open forever, until...

    When the "lights on" wire gets grounded (not just disconnected, but actually grounded), the other solenoid slides the valve the other way, flipping the lights closed. They will stay closed forever until vacuum is lost, as they are spring-loaded to open as a failsafe.

    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 (Pre-Op) | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards thread/Flickr

  9. #269
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    Copy. Fun stuff. I used to dabble with fun electronics and bits for the cars years back. Nothing "stuck" so I have to re-research how I have done things when I have questions about my own work. lol
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  10. #270
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    Minor updates:

    This car has major rain leak issues which I've somehow been unaware of. Having the car parked, and not under cover, has revealed their severity.

    There is a leak at the top of the windshield where water will drip from one exact spot on the trim at the front of the headliner, down onto the centre of the trans tunnel. This is a slow leak. I'm assuming it's the windshield seal, or a rusted through spot adjacent to the seal. The headliner shows no moisture damage.

    There is a massive amount of water accumulation on my driver floor mat (which is rubber and has raised edges, so it traps it) after a couple rain storms. Due to positioning, this seems to be dripping down through the dash itself. It will be somewhat challenging to locate, but the windshield is again the most likely source, is my guess.

    Those are in addition to the well established leaks on both sides somewhere under the vinyl top at the bottom of the rear window.

    There are also persistent moisture specks on the passenger floor mat positioned such that they support my suspicions about the heater core. The car does have very slow coolant loss and no apparent leaks in the engine bay anymore, so heater core is the likely culprit.

    I found an '85 TC with a steel hood in a yard recently and found its hood was staying up on its own, and lifted from closed as easily as my 91 MGM with the aluminum hood! I took its hood struts and put them on my Town Car. I left the hood up for about an hour, with the wind coming from the back of the car, and it stayed up perfectly. No more broom handle hood prop.

    I've relocated the TC to under my leaky, structurally questionable carport to minimize how much water is getting onto it, and therefore into it. Depending on wagon readyness next year, I may take the Lincoln out of service for an extensive tear-down. Being aware as I am about how ugly these are minus their vinyl tops, I hesitate to go that route, but the vinyl is junk and it needs to come off to figure out the water entry. The car is totally not worth the investment to replace the top, either, unless something pre-cut can be bought to DIY which I'd gladly do.

    Insurance is still on it but it's very likely parked for the season now.
    Last edited by kishy; 11-06-2018 at 02:24 PM.

    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 (Pre-Op) | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards thread/Flickr

  11. #271
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    I gave up on aluminum hood shocks. Bought a set for a steel hood and now my aluminum hood works right. I doubt very much that these things could support a steel hood though.

    I think the tops can be purchased pre-cut, or at least rough cut that need a final trim at the edges. I know the dude that did the top on my car ordered it from somewhere because they sent the wrong one at first. I don't know where it came from though.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  12. #272
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    I put Stabilus on everything, from the Firebird (hood & rear hatch) to both our TC's and years later, things still work just peachy. I find it fascinating that dad put up with dead shocks on the Firebird for years and years and one of the first things I did when I got the car was slap a set on at both ends and no issues or prop rods since. I used to be the designated hatch-holder-upper when grocery getting.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  13. #273
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    The issue I was having was that I bought hood struts for a steel hood, and they would not hold the hood up. In fact they made it harder to open the hood than with no struts attached. They were truly acting like "shocks": resisting movement in any direction but allowing it to happen at a reduced rate.

    RockAuto warrantied them and the same thing happened with the new ones. When that happened, I got them refunded with no need to return them.

    Since RockAuto and every other vendor is at the mercy of the application data provided by the part manufacturer - in this case Strong Arm brand parts manufactured by AMS - so I strongly suspect that this was not a unique issue to RockAuto and buying the part from anywhere else would possibly give the same result. On the flipside, it is entirely possible they were just extremely old stock and the seals had gradually released all pressure within, causing them to become useless. I've heard references that a lift support is good for less than 10 years whether it's on a vehicle or the shelf.

    The junkyard items are working perfectly and hopefully will continue to do so.

    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 (Pre-Op) | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards thread/Flickr

  14. #274
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Oh, that's weird. You know, I was half tempted to buy the struts for a steel hooded car as I figured they'd make the hood real easy to open. Glad I did.

    Junkyard parts are the way to go, it's just that I could never find two that matched and well as Ace Ventura said, "It's a high performance machine, I had to fill it with premium.."
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  15. #275
    No mean-spiritedness here. IPreferDIY's Avatar
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    Just thought I'd throw in my experience with the hood supports on my 2000 MGM. During a recent winter, they were failing, but after opening and closing the hood a few times to 'pump them up', they would hold the hood up. It seemed to be a matter of the cold temperature, since I only had to do that on a few occasions during that cold season. I haven't had issues with them since, though it's possible that I haven't actually opened the hood during a subsequent winter. Unless they fail outright, I'm jus' gonna leave 'em in there.

    2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
    mods: air filter box "tuba" (in place of the "trumpet"), headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, NKL4 PCM (from a 2000 CVPI, nothing great there apart from highway cruising), KYB Gas-A-Just shocks (after >202,000 km on originals)

  16. #276
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    The ones I have are Strong Arm brand too, both the working steel set and the non-working AL ones. For a good while I had vintage Ford ones on the car but they finally kicked the bucket. The 1988 originals were still trying harder to hold the hood up than the brand new ones did. This is I think the fourth or fifth set on the car since I bought it in 2004. They were shot then too.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  17. #277
    Member BigMerc96's Avatar
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    Sachs/Stabilus is the only way to go. They are the OE supplier to Ford, as well as Chrysler, GM, Volkswagen, Toyota, and pretty much everyone else.

    FWIW, my Town Car still sports its original hood supports on its aluminum hood, and its 22 years old as of 2 months ago. They still work fine. My '96 still had its originals too. My '98 however, they worked exactly once in my ownership. Well, not even then, the only time they worked for me was when I popped the hood during my test drive to check the fluids. Bought the car, drove it home, popped the hood and it proceeded to pop me right in the head and a Whale Panther steel hood ain't exactly lightweight. So new Sachs/Stabilus lift supports was one of the first parts I bought for it, they looked identical to the originals and had all the same markings just without the Ford logo and part number printed on em.
    -Steve

    1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS HPP ~95k miles, slowly acquiring modifications.
    1997 Lincoln Town Car Cartier ~145k miles, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust, Cats ran away, KYB Gas-A-Justs, P71 front sway bar, air ride reinstalled, Blinker Mod, Projector headlight retrofit, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel retrofit, all natural weight reduction as the parts fall off..
    1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12

  18. #278
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    unfortunately I was only ever able to find the Strong Arm ones for my 86. Should these die I'll see if I can turn up the Sachs ones. I don't really care what they cost if the damn things work. I've gotten pretty sick of changing them.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  19. #279
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    RockAuto looks to be selling Sachs Stabilus for the box TC hood, part number SG404002. It's only offered as regular stock, not closeout, which usually means it's a current stock item and not 30 years old (good for some things, bad for others).

    Cost is roughly equal to the Strong Arm part at wholesaler closeout price, and cheaper than the Strong Arm regular pricing. But it's all within a couple bucks either way.

    I didn't note what the markings on my junkyard ones say, but based on the photo provided on RockAuto there's a chance my new ones may be the Sachs part. Maybe. They are definitely not the Strong Arm parts.

    It's a weird lift support, as lift supports go. Fairly chubby but very short, where most for this type of application are long and skinny.

    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 (Pre-Op) | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards thread/Flickr

  20. #280
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    the geometry doesn't help things. The longer type are mounted further out so leverage isn't working against them so much. The early Mark VI had gas shocks on the trunk that were similarly overworked. Those were abandoned for torsion rods at least. I gave some thought to swapping Vic hinges on my car until I realized they wouldn't match up on the fender side. I forget why now but it wouldn't have been a drop-in. Both of my Fox cars with the hood coil springs work perfectly, and if you shoot some grease in those springs they don't make awful noises when the hood opens.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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