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Thread: kishy's 1984 Town Car

  1. #61
    BANNED! sxcpotatoes's Avatar
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    You can check out my vid in the exhaust sound thread for an example of headers, 2.5" custom H pipe, and no mufflers at all. It was okay at idle and cruising, but if you got on it then it was almost impossible to have a cell phone conversation inside the car (probably worse outside). Eventually had to put some mufflers on because I got on it going through the tunnel on the way to work one night and the cop pulled me over.
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  2. #62
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    Found the vid. Yours was way more obnoxious than I'd ever want mine to be.

    Cats do a massive amount of noise reduction, comparing "no cats and no mufflers" to "cats with no mufflers" is apples to oranges.

    Also keep in mind this is a stock CFI engine with the heads people often decry as "awful". They don't move a lot of air.

    In any event the plan is to have it set up so mufflers can easily be introduced. Nothing is getting welded or U-clamped, only band clamps.
    Last edited by kishy; 02-12-2018 at 01:15 PM.

    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 (Pre-Op) | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards thread/Flickr

  3. #63
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    I agree - the stock cats and no mufflers sounds pretty good, at least in my garage. Not sure if they’d sound different under load. My glasspacks sound good in the garage but like butt on the road.

    I too suspect the magnaflows could be louder. With the baby cams these cars run, I still doubt noise would be an issue. You could always add mufflers later.

    Have you compared the length of the 84 manifold to the 91? If they are the same, you should be able to run then lincoln logs, even with the heat riser and new cats.
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  4. #64
    Play me something funky! marquisman's Avatar
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    I ran cats without mufflers on my wagon for over a year. I liked the sound, not obnoxiously loud and low resonance inside. Only think I hated, the deceleration popping in the exhaust, like when going down a hill. Honestly, sounds like shit. I was able to fix this issue and keep the nice rumble, with a pair of cherry bomb extreme single chamber mufflers.

    1980 Lincoln Mark VI Givenchy 2-Door 351W (PIMP hard)- SOLD
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    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS Colony Park 351W (juice box)- Winter DD/back up
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  5. #65
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    I concluded that there was no off-the-shelf "S" pipe to meet the needs of my muffler bypass using direct fit H and tails, so I opted for Summit welded turbo mufflers plus short lengths of ID to OD pipe connectors to make up the length difference, which are the cheapest to-my-door option for a "non-stock-replacement" muffler. I have no interest of any kind in putting it in a shop to get stuff measured, custom formed and done...if I can't do it myself on jack stands with band clamps, I don't want it on the car.

    We shall see how they sound...hopefully they work out alright.

    Dual 2" stock stuff with ugly bends will still be a big flow improvement over the single, and I'm thinking the new cats may wake up a few ponies too, depending on exactly how much exhaust is able to sneak through the current ones.

    Most likely I'm leaving the manifolds alone, there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to change those (if there is, sell me on it please).
    Last edited by kishy; 02-16-2018 at 03:32 PM.

    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 (Pre-Op) | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards thread/Flickr

  6. #66
    Approaching 2 decades of DDing Box Panthers VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kishy View Post
    ...
    Most likely I'm leaving the manifolds alone, there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to change those (if there is, sell me on it please).
    When I swapped the engine in The Ice Car a couple of summers ago i replaced the cats and everything from that point back. Rusted to crap studs in the manifolds that were holding the cats to the manifolds weren't coming out (with the tools available, dad's torch set was in need of gas) even with the engine on a stand. Dad took the manifolds to work with him and had the studs and O2 sensors out with ease. The bolts holding the manifolds to the engine were super easy to get out though. If extracting the studs and/or O2 sensor(s?, there's only one on cfi, right? not sure where) is a concern for you and doing so would be easier on a bench, that might be enough of an excuse to at least find some Lincoln logs.
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  7. #67
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    Well, I have a set, but I figure it would make more sense to put them on an engine that has heads with flow capability that justifies better manifolds...supposedly 84 has boat anchor heads still.

    I did think of the probability that the cat flange bolts may not decide to come undone, so it's in the back of my mind. Since the best I have for heat is a propane torch, if they're truly stuck in there, I don't know how well I could wrestle them out myself in that case.

    Current plan is to do the Lincoln exhaust before I switch back from the Ranger to the Lincoln as DD. Lincoln needs to be 100% ready to hit the road by May, so that sets up a timeline. Assuming I try to pull the cat pipes off the manifolds fairly soon, that timeline will be a cakewalk to meet.

    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 (Pre-Op) | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards thread/Flickr

  8. #68
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    The stock iron logs flow pretty badly. There is a weight advantage but lets be honest, in a 2 ton car who gives a rat's ass about a few lbs?

    but yeah, engine side usually comes out fine, the studs to the downpipes not so much.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
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  9. #69
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    At long last, the exhaust project begins!

    The parts list is:
    • Magnaflow 23367 (left/driver) and 23368 (right/passenger) direct-fit cats with air tubes
    • Walker 35574 air tube connection kits (overpriced silicone rubber hose with clamps) - bought two, only need one
    • Walker 40492 direct-fit H-pipe
    • Summit 655230 "turbo" mufflers
    • Walker 41947, 12" length, 2" ID to OD extensions to make up the missing muffler length
    • Walker 46607 (left/driver) and 46539 (right/passenger) direct-fit tail pipes
    • Walker 33230 2" Mega Clamp lap-joint band clamps for a couple joints, and 35335 HD U-clamps for a couple others
    • Walker 35600 universal hangers (using 3, one behind each muffler, and one for the missing tailpipe hanger on one side)


    Unexpectedly this will also include a spark plug replacement, because I broke a bunch getting the exhaust manifolds off. Oops. I've bought more Autolite #26 due to breaking them than any other part.

































    Current status: no exhaust installed. Need to purchase hardware, stainless if available, and I'm thinking of hitting the 90 TC manifolds with VHT, but undecided.
    Found the source of my weird metallic vibration sound, it's the heat riser valve shaking. No longer a concern.

    The manifold for the heat riser (driver side) is different at the end; it's flat rather than with the tapered end. It's not clear to me the riser valve will play nice with the 90 TC manifold. Still need to figure this out.

    Interesting trivia: the heat riser valve was made by Fram in Canada.

    Also, I'm down a pair of jeans thanks to the undercoating on this damned car.

    Last edited by kishy; 04-24-2018 at 10:52 AM.

    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 (Pre-Op) | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards thread/Flickr

  10. #70
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    I have the direct fit magnaflow cats on my 93 and put them on the 88. Not disappointed and even with all the abuse over 50K miles on the 88 and 100K on the 93... no issues. Still passed sniff last year on the 93 as well. No more sniff test for it this year, though my own sniffer will know if/when it goes bad.

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  11. #71
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    I see you gained a pair of shop Jeans.
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  12. #72
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Deleting the flapper valve, or did you fix it? I had a thermostatic one on a Dodge I had a long time ago, but it was broken. Instead of the coil being attached somewhere to force it to open as it got hot, it was broken and the thing just flapped around, mostly towards closed. Anyy time I gave it gas it would push open. Made horrible noises, and performance on that truck was just terrible. Never fixed it, traded it towards the S10.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

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    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  13. #73
    Play me something funky! marquisman's Avatar
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    1980 Lincoln Mark VI Givenchy 2-Door 351W (PIMP hard)- SOLD
    1981 Mercury Marquis Brougham 2-Door 302 special blend (GMGT)- Summer fun
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS Colony Park 351W (juice box)- Winter DD/back up
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  14. #74
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    I'm actually pleased to hear from another Magnaflow direct-fit buyer, because I couldn't really find any reports online saying much about them. This car is emissions exempt, but 1) I don't like the smell of catless cars and 2) I do believe the environmental stuff is important.

    I already had a pair of shop jeans, which I did not choose to wear for stupid reasons. I guess I now have 2 pair.

    I believe I have to keep the heat riser flapper valve, due to the length of the direct-fit cats. They will not direct-fit anymore if I leave it out. It has worked fine the whole time I've had the car and having it there doesn't bug me, but the shaft is loose in its bore (not sure if there's some sort of bushing in there) which causes a metallic rattling sound at specific RPM conditions. It only bugged me on the basis that it might have been a valvetrain or accessory noise, but it was such a foreign sound I never could figure out what it was.
    Last edited by kishy; 04-22-2018 at 11:00 AM.

    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 (Pre-Op) | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards thread/Flickr

  15. #75
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    May just be steel on iron, iron actually makes decent bearing material for things like this since its under no real stress and barely moves. If the steel or iron eroded from exhaust gasses over the years it may not be a good fit anymore and thats probably what the rattle is about.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  16. #76
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    Today was one of those progress without progress days.

    I picked up bolts (plated, stainless couldn't be had locally) to take the place of the cat-to-manifold studs, and unfortunately hadn't banked on the extra gap the 90 TC manifolds introduce because of the tapered end (vs the stock manifold, which is flat), so the bolts for that side were too short. Great. They do fit the original manifold, of course, since that's where I got my bolt length from.

    Looking at it and thinking about it, I think the original manifolds are going back on. With all new hardware it won't be the end of the world to take them out down the road if needed. Knowing myself, though, I probably will never actually do that...

    I redirected my attention to the tailpipes, since it needs to be done, even if I'm working backwards.
    I "made" a hanger for the driver side using a bent universal hanger, and since they're direct-fit tailpipes, the passenger side one fits with the factory hanger. I need to come up with something better for this but at least I've got the pipes over the axle, positioned correctly.

    Likewise, I need to figure out a permanent solution for the hangers in front of the axle, but I'm thinking once the H is in place it might hold everything together and "just work" which would be cool. What needs to happen here will become clearer once the manifolds and cats are in place.






    The pipes were quite low here, I've since adjusted that, and will make sure they're not too low when it's all together.



    Last edited by kishy; 04-22-2018 at 10:41 PM.

    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 (Pre-Op) | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards thread/Flickr

  17. #77
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    The super sweet smell wears off in about 10-20K miles. Mine no longer have the super metallic sweet smell that fresh aftermarket cats make. Took me about 4 years to cover that mileage in the Mad Marquis and probably 3 years in the RVC.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  18. #78
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    Progress, with progress!

    As mentioned here, I have opted to reinstall the original manifolds, without gaskets as they came off. This may prove to be an irritating mistake, but we'll see. I didn't want to deal with the bigger, more annoying issue of the 90TC driver side manifold, and didn't want to waste the gaskets unnecessarily. If I had bought cats for a SEFI car this would be a non-issue, I would be using the 90TC manifolds and would have eliminated the heat riser valve. Speaking of which, the vacuum line is still unhooked, which will be a real pain to diagnose later if I don't note it here now.

    Spark plugs: all of them were identical, with what I understand to be a healthy grey-white look to the electrode. They don't have a lot of mileage on them so I wasn't expecting them to look awful, but it's nice to see they look good. Of course, I'm keeping the 6 non-broken ones, probably to put in the wagon when the time comes.

    The cats went onto the manifolds beautifully. They truly are direct fit. The air injection tubes were very close to the right locations, so it didn't take much to connect them, though I did fully remove the pipe to maneuver things around and eliminated one of the hangers off the torque converter inspection cover bolts.

    I forgot to mention, with regard to my past thread "Prolong life of new exhaust", I have concluded that the Lincoln is no longer a winter beater and will not be exposed to conditions that will kill the exhaust too far prematurely. What I did do, and whether it will help or not is impossible to know, is hit the flanges that meet up with the cats and the 2" of pipe after them, inside and out, with VHT primer (3 coats) and black VHT paint (3 coats). Since the flange welds are one of the first spots to rust catastrophically on these types of pipe, I'm hoping this will provide some protection, and further hoping that when the engine is running in the next few days, it will be enough to cure things further.

    I used some bolts I had lying around (to be replaced with bigger, stronger, better ones for final mounting) to bolt the H-pipe to the cats, and then wiggled it all around so it lined up OK, then tightened the bolts into the manifolds to lock it all in place. I've now got the mufflers hanging in place, but nothing is clamped down or tightened, just as a mock-up. Trying to decide if I want the mufflers towards the front or rear, since they're shorter than stock I have little extension pipes (Walker 41947) making up the difference. Future me would appreciate putting the mufflers toward the front, since it'll free up room for a U-joint press. I still also need to figure out a better solution for the muffler hangers, as nothing is really stopping them from just drooping down and putting the tailpipes into contact with stuff.

    To-do: buy some hardware, clamp stuff up, fit hangers, then fire it up and see how it sounds. Exciting.































    As mentioned, everything is just in a mock-up stage right now. Plenty of adjustments to be made.

    And yeah, my #7 plug wire routing is "unique"...it's the best way I've found to ensure that pesky 7/8 misfire/crossfire can't happen at all.
    Last edited by kishy; 04-24-2018 at 12:52 AM.

    83 GM 2dr | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 (Pre-Op) | 85 CS | 85 Ranger | 91 GM POTM 12/2017 | Junkyards thread/Flickr

  19. #79
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Man, you are industrious. Just looking at those pics is making me tired and it's only 6:30AM, I practically just woke up haha.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
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  20. #80
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    I wish I was as handy as you are with exhaust. Any time I touch mine outside of replacing the cats to h-pipe gaskets, it starts trials and tribulations. There’s a reason I’m going to let a shop weld up my tail pipes to the mufflers on the wagon, I’ll never the couplers to work right since the system came off a junked car.

    My Cars:
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    -1989 Sable LS Wagon (88,710 Miles) - Sold
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (200K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 POTM Winner

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