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Thread: looking for thoughts on Low wattage systems in big cars

  1. #1

    Default looking for thoughts on Low wattage systems in big cars

    I am working on a concept for a Bass system in my GM the involves two mirrored 6 order band-pass boxes mounted on either side of the trunk with a 6.5 sub in each. The boxes will be made from stacked 3/4 Birch plywood and will each have a lexan window facing inward and a window on top with a main port either exiting forward or towards the center of the trunk. The idea is to run the subs in parallel but to be honest, like i said, this is all still in the concept phase. The idea is something elegant but space saving that can add to the stage well but I am not looking to be obnoxious; I commute 60 miles round trip each day so this is a system that I want to enjoy and get longevity from.

    This is my first REAL system, ever. I played with car audio in High School and currently feel confident in doing head and speaker upgrades; designing a tuned box like this is not something I have done before so I have been doing A LOT of research. I am basing my concepts on ideas I have gotten from Mark on Car Audio Fabrication and Doug on Amplified (YouTube Channels) and was going to go all in with something like a pair of 6.5 sundowners or even CT sounds and a big meaty amp, but then i saw this video which uses some cheaper and lower watt subs to produce some rather impressive results.

    I have never really liked Pyle, I have always felt the name was ironically fitting; however I have always had the same opinion of Pyramid until last year I when cheaped out and put a pair of the Pro Pyramid woofers in the front doors of our suburban, they are still impressing me just off the JVC head. Of course those speakers don't get pushed hard, my wife drives that truck daily and the only time they get pushed hard is when I am in the truck by myself as both my kids complain that my music is too loud........ So longevity wise under my use I have no idea. But this concept of low wattage (Looks like he might actually be giving both subs the full 200watts even though he said 100watts RMS) interest me and I wonder if the concepts here could be applied to my build. Of course the box above is two subs in a massive common chamber with a port big enough to stick my 4 year old through; seeing as I am pretty much a noob to all of this I have no idea how these concepts could translate to the build i have in mind. I feel I need to settle on the hardware before I get too involved in my box design so at this point i am looking for guidance and thought I would start here as you are all familiar with the acoustical requirements on these cars.

    I am looking for discussion on the ideas
    reading materiel that relates
    and similar experience stories.

    Can a low wattage system work or do i need to look at 500watts RMS or more each? I have already done a 3g upgrade and need to finish my big3, battery and 0 gauge to the back are on the list after that.
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  2. #2
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    My setup is 2 10s at 135W RMS and it's MORE then enough. I'd think a couple long throw 6.5s would be able to do really well.

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    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    a lot has to do with speaker efficiency. More efficient setups need less power. Watts aren't watts either. RMS figures are lower, but they're honest power. If you're getting stuff rated in instant music power or peak watts or something like that, it sounds bigger on paper but in reality it doesn't have the same stones.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
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    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

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    i JUST RUN 50W per channel at 12 volts. which means it has more watts at 13+ radios rated at 13.5 or so as most are rated.
    Speakers have ranges of 25 to a bit over 30000 hrtz. Have had guys with sub woffers and powerful amps go back to their ride and go crazy trying to make their system sound as good
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  5. #5

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    I have 3 way fosgate primes all the way around and they handle the Bass well but I want to separate the frequencies and clean up the stage. I am also looking at building custom map pocket pods or pass throughs so I can put a pair of woofers in the doors.

    I agree a set of well tuned components can do well, my Suburban does just that and I still need to add a component amp and the upgrade the rear side door speakers.


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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    a lot has to do with speaker efficiency. More efficient setups need less power. Watts aren't watts either. RMS figures are lower, but they're honest power. If you're getting stuff rated in instant music power or peak watts or something like that, it sounds bigger on paper but in reality it doesn't have the same stones.
    I am not following your thought process here, I agree RMS ratings are generally BS .


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  7. #7
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    RMS ratings are honest. 100 watts RMS is a lot more true useful power than 100 watts peak. Some audio amps have power ratings that are complete bullshit, so you have to read the measurement units to try and figure out what you're actually looking at. Just because it says 250 watts on the label doesn't mean that every amp marked that way is going to perform in a similar manner for you.


    More efficient speakers make more sound for your power input. They're typically rated for decibels at 1 watt at 1 meter, though once in a while you'll find sneaky shit where they rate it for 2.83 volts at 1 meter. 2.83 volts is 1 watt into 8 ohms. Its 2 watts into 4 ohms, or 4 watts into 2 ohms. Basically it inflates the real efficiency by making the spec misleading.

    Anyway, say you have a speaker system (the enclosure plays a part in this) rated at 90 db efficiency, 1 watt at 1 meter. 3 db of increase requires double the power. 93 db is 2 watts, 96 db is 4 watts, etc. You can see where you'd get a lot more sound out of a 100 db efficient speaker setup than say an 80 db efficient setup using the same power amp. Low watts means efficient speakers if you want high sound levels. Then you get into the whole "system" aspect of it. The box size and design has to mate up with what the driver requires. There are calculators and such but most driver mfgs will tell you how many cubic feet the enclosure should be for sealed, how much for ported, etc. Stuffing a driver that physically fits into a random size box may not produce ideal results.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

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    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    What gadget said. I forget exactly which amp went in my Townie but it was a 5 channel JBL, something like 500w RMS @ 2 or 4 ohms for my sub and 75w RMS per channel at 4 or 2 ohms for my speakers, I forget now. Speakers are all JBL Power Series including the sub. Sounds fantastic, best damn system I've ever had and I've done a few and went through tons of speakers - Boston Acoustics, Kenwood, Sony, Alpine, Pioneer ect. and nothing beats the JBL's in terms of bang for the buck. No distortion, honest frequency reproduction and no hollow, trebly sound like with Pyle or Alpine. If you're really on the cheap, you can run 6x9's from a JBL equipped Conti along with JBL door speakers from a Mark VII along with whatever sub you choose. The factory JBL shit is tough to beat for the price, I ran that stuff for awhile.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  9. #9

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    Okay, I am starting to understand; great information BTW!

    So lets compare two drivers here:

    Fosgate Punch P2D4-8 - 8" Sub
    Pyle PLPW6D - 6" Sub

    The Fosgate is rated 83db (1w1m) @ 250 watts RMS 43hz
    The Pyle is rated 89db (not specified) @ 300 watts RMS 34hz (From one seller, cannot confirm through vendor. Though the video above he did measure it at 24hz)

    So for the fosgate to get to 89db would require 750watts total? meaning the Pyle, on paper at least, is the more efficient speaker? and it can reach lower!?!? my gut is telling me the Pyle specs are complete BS.
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  10. #10
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    Look them up on Canfields web site to find specks. Its not as easy as it was when they had charts listing speakers and their specks have to do it by speaker and open up info
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  11. #11

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    yeeaahhh, they don't carry pyle.......they do carry Powerbass though, which is lower end brand I like!
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  12. #12

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    For anyone interested, here is what I have come up with on the two speakers I am looking at.

    Fosgate P2D48 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Fosgate P2D48.PNG 
Views:	26 
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ID:	48427

    Pyle PLPE6D Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Plye PLPW6D 1.PNG 
Views:	24 
Size:	55.5 KB 
ID:	48428
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  13. #13
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam.w.ackerman View Post
    Okay, I am starting to understand; great information BTW!

    So lets compare two drivers here:

    Fosgate Punch P2D4-8 - 8" Sub
    Pyle PLPW6D - 6" Sub

    The Fosgate is rated 83db (1w1m) @ 250 watts RMS 43hz
    The Pyle is rated 89db (not specified) @ 300 watts RMS 34hz (From one seller, cannot confirm through vendor. Though the video above he did measure it at 24hz)

    So for the fosgate to get to 89db would require 750watts total? meaning the Pyle, on paper at least, is the more efficient speaker? and it can reach lower!?!? my gut is telling me the Pyle specs are complete BS.

    No. The Fosgate is rated to handle 250 watts. The efficiency is 83 db at what I'm assuming is 1 watt of input. To get 89db of sound from it you'd need 4 watts of input. If its not efficiency at 1 watt, that number may vary somewhat but it'll be a relatively small number of watts, not anywhere in the hundreds range.

    Not sure what the frequency thing is about, unless thats the frequency they measured efficiency at, or maybe the frequency they rated the power handling at.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

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  14. #14
    I post a lot... turbo2256b's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SPEAKERS 004.jpg 
Views:	19 
Size:	108.7 KB 
ID:	48430

    Last speakers i installed rear deck 2 more going in doors soon to replace 6 1/2". sh will be replaced next cant remember size but they were 5 1/2 maybe
    Scars are tatoos of the fearless

  15. #15
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    looks like the graph is the resonant frequency or tuned frequency. I'd go for the lower frequency response as it'll help fill the low end better as the 6x9s on the rear deck will fill in from 80 Hz and higher. That's basically what I did with my setup. The 10s are for below 80 Hz, but help blend up to 120 Hz with the way my crossover is set up and the rears handle 80+ and the fronts 100+ (when it was in the Mad Marquis... in the aero the fronts are set at 80+ high pass.)

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  16. #16

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    yes, I should have mentioned that. The screens shots are a box design application, supposed to be fairly accurate. The box sizes are close to what i was hoping for but the Hz range is higher than I wanted on both speakers. The design is a single port Bandpass, I can play with the port size some but it looks like neither of these speakers will get the tone I want.
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  17. #17
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Try a 10" maybe.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  18. #18

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    Probably, I will spec out a few tomorrow. I am also going to RTA my car and see what frequencies I am hitting now.


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