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Thread: Evolving Wagon Plans

  1. #1
    BANNED! sxcpotatoes's Avatar
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    Default Evolving Wagon Plans

    So. Thoughts on the '88 Arizona wagon project...

    By the time I find an Explorer motor, have it gone through, possibly have the heads/cam replaced, buy an A9P and a tune, that's up around the $3k to buy the 2012 3.7 v6 Mustang drivetrain Jaywish has for sale. Scott and John think we might be able to swap everything over onto a '03-'11 Town Car Frame, so the steering rack from the 2012 Mustang could be bolted up with some adapter brackets.

    It may end up being too much work and ultimately too expensive of a project to use the V6. I've been keeping an eye out on Craigslist for built motors (which are probably too big a risk to take vs buying good parts at a discount to build a motor). There's an old post in one of the threads about building the 302 for max power and efficiency but I haven't been able to find it again. The post I remember was specifically talking about using AFR heads. Car-part seems to be rotten with 85k-120k Explorer motors between $300-450.

    Anyway, just for shits and giggles I have bookmarked this ad for an AEM Mustang Turbo System Kit that claims low use that a guy in Columbus keeps relisting: https://columbus.craigslist.org/pts/...534804227.html


    I have had a couple guys out so far to look at the Jeep and it's going to cost $2500-3500 to finish probably. I don't trust the first guy, the second doesn't have time this summer, it may be a possibility in the fall/winter, and he said he would ask around to see if any of the other guys he knows that restore cars might have an open slot in the near future. Third guy I talked to said call him back April 7th, but ballparked it around $2500 from talking on the phone. I have to get it out of my neighbor's garage, which means into a storage facility if I put it off until fall/winter for a while and concentrate on the Wagon.



    Barring global financial collapse or job loss I think I should have a realistic budget of roughly $4800 by August 2nd (if it includes using my credit card for like 1/4 of that not maxing it out or anything whether it's parts or engine build labor). August is also a 3-payday month, so the budget could stretch another $1000 by Sept 1st. (Keep in mind this also needs to include the cost of transferring all the goodies from the '89 over to the '88). So I guess the question is, which way do you think I should go with this?
    Last edited by sxcpotatoes; 03-25-2018 at 04:22 PM.
    ,
    Slicktop '91 GS HO 4.30 rear. '82 Mark VI Tudor HO, '90 F-150 XLT, '62 project Heep, '89 Arizona Waggin' and '88 donor in PA, getting combined.

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    Small aside: May be playing rear axle musical chairs, w/the '03-11 rear from the '89 shell going into the '88, and the '88 3.08 TracLok going into my '91 GM if it's good (which needs a big brake upgrade), and the 4.30 geared rear coming out and possibly going up for sale (if anyone is interested). Just using the car too much daily to continue to put up with constant return of 15-17mpg. It hauls ass, chirps tires, and doesn't start making any noise until above 62-63mph. It was a $1000+ axle build that came with the car (sorry no receipt) and I've only put 21-23k mi on it (probably 25ish overall). Just had right rear wheel cylinder replaced.
    Last edited by sxcpotatoes; 03-25-2018 at 04:24 PM.
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    Slicktop '91 GS HO 4.30 rear. '82 Mark VI Tudor HO, '90 F-150 XLT, '62 project Heep, '89 Arizona Waggin' and '88 donor in PA, getting combined.

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    Member a_d_a_m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sxcpotatoes View Post
    So I guess the question is, which way do you think I should go with this?
    The wagon owner in me says "go the route that has the greatest probability of success" because we need more wagons on the road.
    The car enthusiast in me says that a 3.7/LTC frame sounds killer, and you'd be one of one.
    '91 Country Squire | '03 Marauder | '04 CVLX | '07 P71 w/5-speed
    formerly: '02 MGM, '04 MGM, '04 MGM v2.0, '04 MM

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    FYI Town Car frame is too long for a wagon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bean View Post
    FYI Town Car frame is too long for a wagon.
    That's what I thought, I was going to look up your thread where you puzzled out dropping the Tudor on an '03+ chassis to make sure. Thanks for chiming in.

    I am probably going to be working a lot of overtime this summer and there's a chance I can sell back a week or two of my vacation coming up before ScottFest to stretch the budget a little further.
    ,
    Slicktop '91 GS HO 4.30 rear. '82 Mark VI Tudor HO, '90 F-150 XLT, '62 project Heep, '89 Arizona Waggin' and '88 donor in PA, getting combined.

  6. #6
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    https://www.google.com/amp/www.hotro...e-buildup/amp/

    I think that’s the 302 article you’re thinking of...
    1988 Crown Vic Wagon - daily
    1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, former lawn ornament
    Other: 95 Ranger, 74 F250, 68 Mustang, 94 Mustang
    Sold: 1982 LTD and 1987 Crown Vic

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    Thanks Tiggie! I'd never read that article, I was remembering an old post by Scott or HRG where they said they'd use AFR heads, such and such an intake, and whatever exhaust setup for maximum power and economy. Bookmarked. Though I really don't want to go carb'd.
    Last edited by sxcpotatoes; 03-26-2018 at 11:41 PM.
    ,
    Slicktop '91 GS HO 4.30 rear. '82 Mark VI Tudor HO, '90 F-150 XLT, '62 project Heep, '89 Arizona Waggin' and '88 donor in PA, getting combined.

  8. #8
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    don't need to. Thats well within what EEC-IV can be tuned to deal with.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

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    Definitely wanna be running mass-air setup if you go that route. My first thought about that v6 mustang drivetrain was "man that's pretty gay and would sound terrible". Thinking about it further though, i realized that i drive a 1-ton utility van with the same drivetrain in it. It's no dragster but moves around pretty well for what it is. In a vehicle weighing half as much, I think it would definitely acquit itself well and probably return pretty good fuel economy as well. It's still a v6 though, and will sound like one, which is awful. I dunno. Curious as to which way you end up going at this point.

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    Domestic Tourist Lincolnmania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bean View Post
    FYI Town Car frame is too long for a wagon.
    darn. what's the other option? crown vic L?

    1986 lincoln towncar signature series. 5.0 HO with thumper performance ported e7 heads, 1.7 roller rockers, warm air intake, 65mm throttle body, 1/2" intake spacer, ported intakes, 3.73 rear with trac lock, 98-02 front brake conversion, 92-97 rear disc conversion, 1" rear swaybar, 1 3/16" front swaybar, 16" wheels and tires, loud ass stereo system, badass cb, best time to date 15.94 at 87 mph. lots of mods in the works 221.8 rwhp 278 rwt
    2006 Lincoln Town Car Signature. Stock for now
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    please be patient, rebuilding an empire!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lincolnmania View Post
    darn. what's the other option? crown vic L?
    Regular Vic/Marq sedan frame is the only option. It will have to be extended in the back. That's where it's longer. Chop a section off the original wagon frame after the axle and weld it onto the new frame.

    There is always something different in the section above the frame due to the seats in the trunk. Can't remember what's different exactly but it should be easy to mod.

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    I'll do a frame swap in the fall with the wagon and will post the detail.... Actually i should start to post that project soon.

    Steve

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    Okay, little miscommunication with Scott and everybody. They thought I was wanting to convert the air shock system to the newer '90+ Town Car Air Spring System, as was Jay's plan. Doesn't need to be done, really

    Sadly the 2012 V6 Mustang swap just isn't in the cards right now. Home repairs, Jeep project, Scottfest budgeting, everything seems to conspire to put all the checks in the 'NO' column.

    The plan for now is to put a '96-'98 Explorer motor in the '88 Wagon (since 80-120k are available close by in PA for $3-425ish), and a better aftermarket upper and lower intake if I can find a deal on one (if 97-98). Then, perhaps eventually turbo + cam & either aftermarket heads or refurbish the GT40p heads to work with the turbo.

    May have to drive the '90 F150 to ScottFest this year to bring back all the spare parts, and I'll likely be bringing my lady friend as a spare driver to get the Wagon home.
    ,
    Slicktop '91 GS HO 4.30 rear. '82 Mark VI Tudor HO, '90 F-150 XLT, '62 project Heep, '89 Arizona Waggin' and '88 donor in PA, getting combined.

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    My nephew texted me the other day about his buddy's uncle having a '95 Grand Marquis with a bad frame, he's looking to sell the motor and transmission w/116k for $200. I told him I didn't need it, but then I realized this could be a really cheap way to get the '88 Colony Park on the road and dependable.

    Now I know someone did the 302-into-aero IIRC, but has anyone done a mod-motor box? Without body swapping onto the aero/box frame of course.

    I'm just spitballing here, but we were going to need to replace the motor mounts anyway. So correct me if I'm wrong here. I would need the '95 model year motor mounts (polyurethane if available, and possibly brackets?), the complete wiring harness with the motor and trans, computer, and transmission crossmember from the junk car. The custom stainless exhaust that was set up for the 302 may need some adaptation to hook up properly as well, hopefully it would fit under/around the 4R70W without trouble.

    Also, I know the speedometer would not work at all because everything '90+ was electronic and AFAIK there's no place to hook to gears on the 4R70W. Also, it looks like the radiator would have to be the '95+ model because the images on Rock Auto show the trans cooler fittings and the input and output ports switch sides for the 4.6 vs the 5.0.

    This is just a possibility, I'm not saying this is going to happen. I know the '95 w/dual exhaust is only 210hp & 270ft-lb of torque, and the curb weights are (3800-ish on the '95, & 4037 on the '88 CP). So it's not as good as doing the Exploder motor swap, but it saves me having to find an A9P right now etc. This might also put the 3.7 Mustang V6 swap back on the table in a year or two.

    It would also allow me to throw more work Scott's way this year and send him my '91 for the big brake upgrade and steering box replacement (and maybe a rear end swap). So, any thoughts on if this is doable on a budget, etc? Any idea on HVAC adaptability between the '88 controls and the '95 motor and accessories? That's one thing I just realized might be completely different and inop.
    ,
    Slicktop '91 GS HO 4.30 rear. '82 Mark VI Tudor HO, '90 F-150 XLT, '62 project Heep, '89 Arizona Waggin' and '88 donor in PA, getting combined.

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    yes, been done... and IIRC, 92-97 mounts bolt up to a box. So if you can get the engine with the mounts, engine harness, and if possible the dash side wiring for the big fat mass of wires including the cruise control module, it should bolt in. The wiring into your dash for the idiot lights will be the fun part. I think the trans crossmember will need to be turned around or have fresh holes drilled to mount the trans though. You'll probably want the aero driveshaft as well. The speedometer cable you have WILL bolt into the tailshaft of the 95 trans and you can use your current VSS as well. There's no difference in that part on the newer transmissions except there's a plug where the cable would plug into it. The HVAC controls are standalone. Just tie the PCM AC/WOT trigger wire into the ground side of the AC/WOT relay and you're fine. As for the lines... I don't remember if they fit it. If the lines to and from the compressor fit into the dryer and condenser, you're home free. You may need the later dryer though.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
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    If you are gonna go through the trouble of doing 4.6 swap then get a PI engine. 95' was the year they were transitioning from OBD1 to OBD2 so it still had the 91-94 style intake setup. Those engines are more gutless than the 96-2000 NPI engines.

  17. #17
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    but the MPG great. I miss getting 26-28 mpg on the highway with the original engine. I can't do better than 22mpg any more (gears also have a lot to do with that).

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  18. #18
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    diesel power. You know you wanna. Find a wrecked Sprinter and transplant the driveline. That would give you a Mercedes powered Mercury, it would jive with my Beemer powered Lincoln.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  19. #19
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Merc powered Merc... hmm...

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  20. #20
    I post a lot... knucklehead0202's Avatar
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    However shitty it would sound, i sadly still think the mustang v6 is a better swap than the rest. Waaaay more power and still get the good mileage. If a 3.7 will push my shitty work van around it'll definitely move a box panther.

    4.6 and aod-e wouldn't be a bad package, but if it's performance you want, it's a long way off. Gadgo's diesel swap would do better. Unless you're doing all the work yourself at minimal cost, you're better off getting an HO motor and computer IMO. Swaps are for shops. I don't have a shop, time, or a shitload of tools so easier is better. Your experience may vary...

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