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Stocker's 1985 LTD Crown Victoria - Page 4
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Thread: Stocker's 1985 LTD Crown Victoria

  1. #61
    fomoco panthers !
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    Since I normally do the Fords/Lincoln oil changes at 2,000 miles, they do not use oil. Past 2,000 I can expect 1/2- 1 quart usage until 3,000 miles.
    I prefer to use Motorcraft or Purolator filters. If a no name filter is used at a shop, I will change it when I get home. I don't trust shop filters. Lowest bid junk.
    When I lived in the hot California desert, I used to use 10 or 20-50. Here in Maine, it is 0-20 on the Subaru. 5-20 on the 96 CV and 10-30 in the rest.

  2. #62
    Member Stocker's Avatar
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    I plan to switch to 10W-40 with the next change (just about due but I have a busy couple of weekends coming up). Probably should've done that years ago, and according to the maintenance records one of the previous owners switched back and forth between 10W-30 and 10W-40. If it does turn out that the shop didn't actually fix anything, the car doesn't run well enough to drive below 40°F anyway.

    I've always run Motorcraft filters in it - when I still had my F-150 it was nice since I could just buy a whole bunch of FL-1As any time they were at the same warehouse as something else I was ordering from RockAuto.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria
    1977 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
    1996 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4, 360

    Past: 1995 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor

  3. #63
    Member Stocker's Avatar
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    I brought the car to another shop because the oil leak was intolerable.

    Ended up not costing me much. They degreased the engine to look for leaks, started diagnostics with a compression test, then decarbonized the cylinders.

    They didn't go any further because the engine is shot. 40-42% leakdown on all cylinders with no improvement from trying to un-stick the rings. No significant oil leakage, though, so it must be getting forced out from crankcase pressure.

    I'll drive it this week and see if it's still dumping oil or if I can at least passably drive it, but... it's over. I ultimately have no choice but to scrap the car. I can't rebuild the engine myself, and used engines are hard to come by around here and most are borderline junk anyway. To spend $2K+ on a reman and put the same failing CFI on it would be pointless, and the rest of the car is far from mint so the investment to truly do it right probably isn't worth it.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria
    1977 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
    1996 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4, 360

    Past: 1995 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor

  4. #64
    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
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    How bad is the undercarriage?

    I'm sure someone here might be interested in it if you're lucky.

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  5. #65
    GMN Regular Giraffe's Avatar
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    I assume you're not really comfortable with assembling a short block? I ask because it couldn't be that ridiculous to have the bottom end freshened up as long as the block doesn't need to be bored.
    —John

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  6. #66
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    The PCV filter is a typical culprit in causing excessive oil gas pressure which forces out past gaskets and seals. A small PITA but cheap. Also the seal for the PCV may or not need to be built up when you replace it.
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  7. #67
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    If a 302 runs and has compression all all cylinders without blue smoke clouds, I'd run it.

    It's too nice of a car to scrap.
    1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
    1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

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  8. #68
    Member Stocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodachrome Wolf View Post
    How bad is the undercarriage?

    I'm sure someone here might be interested in it if you're lucky.
    The floorpans are fine - the only body rot is the rocker panels, behind the trim (snake blinders) on the front fenders, and at the top corners of the windshield.
    The frame is clean, but I'm 99% sure it's bent. Probably fixable though.

    I thought about that possibility, but there seems to be very few members here west of Lake Michigan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giraffe View Post
    I assume you're not really comfortable with assembling a short block? I ask because it couldn't be that ridiculous to have the bottom end freshened up as long as the block doesn't need to be bored.
    I've never even opened up a salvageable engine before. Tearing something down for scrap is one thing, getting it back together and not having it instantly die is another. Even if I had the space to do it I couldn't trust that I'd be able to do it right. But, it may well need to be bored. From the sound of it I don't think it's a matter of stuck rings, I think the block is plain worn out. The one person I know who could help doesn't have the time and really doesn't want to work on this car anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaywish View Post
    The PCV filter is a typical culprit in causing excessive oil gas pressure which forces out past gaskets and seals. A small PITA but cheap. Also the seal for the PCV may or not need to be built up when you replace it.
    The PCV valve and filter element were just replaced (I wish they hadn't been) which is when it started dumping oil. But I'd think if pressure were building up that badly it'd push the valve out of the oil cap before anything else, wouldn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggie View Post
    If a 302 runs and has compression all all cylinders without blue smoke clouds, I'd run it.

    It's too nice of a car to scrap.
    Given that they don't make these anymore (and soon nobody will make any car worth driving), you'd be right. If I could do enough of the work myself it'd be worth saving to me, but the older I get the more inept I get and I don't think I can handle this.

    Compression was around 140 psi on all cylinders. It's never burned oil, at least not enough to detect. I'd drive it, but it was leaking so much oil it was getting on the insides of the tires and leaving oil spots 2-3 feet wide anywhere I parked it. If that keeps up I can't justify driving it at all.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria
    1977 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
    1996 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4, 360

    Past: 1995 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor

  9. #69
    P31 Pursuit Car Brown_Muscle's Avatar
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    Something is up here... even with massive blowby the PCV system should make so the crankcase isn't pressurized- and if it did become pressurized and is forcing oil out, a seal must have ruptured, causing these massive oil leaks, which they should have been able to find. It seems like a weird coincidence that this started happening after they touched the PCV system... When we talk about pressure, it's very slight. if it was able to blow out the PCV valve you'd be talking about a LOT of pressure, even .5 psi is a bad amount, considering it should be in a slight vacuum when running. I wish i was closer by, i'd help you out. If it is still in the same shape it was in when you took those first picture of it, then it's worth saving- either by you or someone else
    -Phil



    +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. Built 351w, Trickflow 11R 190 Heads, Holley Sniper EFI, RPM Intake+ Hyperspark dizzy, WR-AOD, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, HPP Steering Box.

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  10. #70
    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
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    Where is the largest amount of oil coming from on the engine? Given how bad it sounds, it should be visible while running.

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  11. #71
    Member Stocker's Avatar
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    That's the thing. I was fairly confident that it was coming from the front of the intake, since it was pooling up on top of the timing cover. Maybe the distributor seal, but I don't see how there could be that much oil coming up around that.

    But, the second shop couldn't find any noteworthy leaks after degreasing it and adding a UV dye to the oil, although they never did more than drive it around the block. I can see some seepage around some valve cover bolts, but not enough to be the problem.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria
    1977 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
    1996 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4, 360

    Past: 1995 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor

  12. #72
    Still Wrenchin'! friskyfrankie's Avatar
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    One massive leak (which a shop should have been able to find) or MANY smaller ones leading to the issue. Therefore, finding one at a time is not going to set off any alarms!
    What I Own: 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
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  13. #73
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    Good luck in whatever path you may choose.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
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  14. #74
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    Thanks.

    I drove it 11 miles this morning, and when I got home, I checked again. There's oil pooling up on top of the timing cover just like before. I couldn't get the camera to focus properly, but the orange arrows show where the oil is. Those spots were dry before, so it must be under acceleration that it blows through the seal(s).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    1985 LTD Crown Victoria
    1977 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
    1996 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4, 360

    Past: 1995 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor

  15. #75
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    Distributor o-ring, intake gaskets are likely culprits. Those are reasonably easy to fix.
    1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
    1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

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  16. #76
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    yeah the intake end seals are a regular issue on these. The cork ones are trash, get the rubber/silicone ones. The distributor O ring should come in the intake gasket set. Valve cover leaks are also extremely common.


    with that much cylinder leakage, the only reason for it is excessively rich fuel mix that washes down the cylinder walls. I'd expect to smell gas in the oil if that were the situation.

    or their leakdown tester is full of it. Not impossible. A compression test would back that up, 40% leakage should show up as low compression that comes up significantly with oil in the cylinder and probably low manifold vacuum when running as well.
    Last edited by gadget73; 09-25-2022 at 05:26 PM.

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  17. #77
    Member Stocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    with that much cylinder leakage, the only reason for it is excessively rich fuel mix that washes down the cylinder walls. I'd expect to smell gas in the oil if that were the situation.
    The shop indicated gas in the oil, I've long smelled gas in the oil at each change, and the fact that it's run pig rich for the past few years makes that unsurprising. In fact, I wouldn't doubt that fuel washing oil off the cylinder walls is what destroyed them.

    140 psi compression is within what Ford appears to consider "normal", but it's on the very low end of normal.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria
    1977 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
    1996 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4, 360

    Past: 1995 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor

  18. #78
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Get it to stop running rich and then throw a can of Restore in it. Short of mechanical failure, that chit will increase compression.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
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  19. #79
    GMN Regular Giraffe's Avatar
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    It doesn't really sound like it's all that bad off based on what I'm reading here. Figure out how gas is getting into the oil and fix that, replace top end and oil pan gaskets, throw a can of restore in it as mentioned above. As long as it isn't burning oil, experiencing a lot of blow by, has good oil pressure, and has no knocks, it sounds like daily driver material to me.
    —John

    1985 Ford F-150 XLT Lariat
    1990 Mercury Grand Marquis LS (POTM March 2017 & May 2019 - gone, but not forgotten)
    1995 Mustang SVT Cobra coupe (cream puff)
    1966 Mustang coupe (restoration in-progress)

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    Get it to stop running rich and then throw a can of Restore in it. Short of mechanical failure, that chit will increase compression.
    I wondered if Restore was still a thing - I haven't heard about it in a long time. But... I've been trying to get it to stop running rich for years. I can't figure it out and no shop can figure it out. My last option would be to re-cap the computer just in case. I assume there's at least a couple electrolytic caps in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giraffe View Post
    It doesn't really sound like it's all that bad off based on what I'm reading here. Figure out how gas is getting into the oil and fix that, replace top end and oil pan gaskets, throw a can of restore in it as mentioned above. As long as it isn't burning oil, experiencing a lot of blow by, has good oil pressure, and has no knocks, it sounds like daily driver material to me.
    It isn't burning oil, but it does have a lot of blowby. It used to take about a week to saturate the breather filter (now that it's blown the intake seal out it doesn't get much oil up there). Oil pressure... seems okay, never had the light on. Valvetrain noise on startup, but no bottom end noise. UOAs have all come back mediocre at best, worse the past couple years.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria
    1977 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
    1996 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4, 360

    Past: 1995 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor

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