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Thread: Set timing, now car won't start! HELP!!!

  1. #1
    Member Not_your_grandpas_marquis's Avatar
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    Default Set timing, now car won't start! HELP!!!

    So I installed a new explorer/GT40 intake and got it all buttoned up. I dropped the distributor in to the exact spot from when I parked the car to do the intake swap(never cranked the engine once or moved the crank, took pictures to verify exact location) and turn the key the car won't start. Set the car to 0 before TDC and the #1 point on the distributor at the 12 o' clock position and go to fire it up and the car idles like crap for a few seconds then dies right after. All vacuum ports not used are plugged and have hose clamps, all wiring is plugged in. If I give it some throttle it stays running but runs like complete crap, sounds like it's missing. Car ran perfect before I parked it for the weekend project (it's my daily driver) and now it has some sort of ignition issue (my guess). Any help is appreciated, car is a 1990 MGM.

  2. #2
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Should be 10 BTDC, not 0.

    Honestly it sounds more like a fuel problem. Vacuum leak, clogged vacuum port, etc. I had a dirt dauber in the vac port on my car when I did the GT40 upper and it ran like complete shit until I realized the MAP had no vacuum.

    What are you using for the EGR spacer and throttle body? The only stuff that reliably works right is the Lightning spacer. The stock ones usually will not bore out that far and seal correctly. Throttle body is usually the Explorer one with the stock throttle lever on it.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
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    Member Not_your_grandpas_marquis's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply, I have recently put a walbro 190lph pump and new fuel filter about 5 months ago. I hope fueling isn't the problem, that would be no fun!

    The intake was cleaned spotless and free of carbon before I installed it, all unused vacuum ports plugged, the map has brand new vacuum line ran to it and double checked it wouldn't kink before I installed the intake. I have a lightning spacer and throttle body with a ported upper that's been on the car basically since right after I bought it.

    This is just mind numbing because she's been the definition of reliable and now all this. I'm going to check all the vacuum ports tomorrow just to triple check.

  4. #4
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Are you sure you're not 180 degrees out? Are you at TDC on the compression stroke?

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  5. #5
    Member Not_your_grandpas_marquis's Avatar
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    Yes I'm sure, I did the screwdriver method to make sure I was almost to the top then put it to 0 BTC and 10 BTC (some say 0 some say 10) and it run like complete crap both ways. I even put it in 180 from #1 at 0 (just to check since it was not firing anyways) and it just wouldn't fire just a few pops.

    I'm really at a loss, I'm going to triple check all vacuum lines, connectors, and do the timing again in the morning.

  6. #6
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Still using the original cam?
    Correct firing order?
    1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

    or HO stick
    1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8

    counter clockwise rotation.

    Also... I'm guessing EFI since you talk about the MAP sensor. If you're running the stock computer that expects 14# injectors... and have 14# injectors... the amount of air the explorer intake provides may require bumping up to 19# injectors. If you're running an HO stick and D9S computer... you'll definitely need 19# or maybe 21# injectors if it's lean.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  7. #7
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    Did you remove the spout conector? You have to remove the conector to set the timeing or the computer will try and set it.

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    Member Not_your_grandpas_marquis's Avatar
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    Yes, stock EFI with LoPo cam. I know its running rich as of now so 19lb. injectors wouldn't help and they dont play nice with the stock ECU anyways.

    I reset the timing (again, FML) 10 BTC, #1 point at 12 o'clock, spout connector out, and still runs like complete trash.

    I checked all vacuum lines and ports to make sure they're tight and there are none that I forgot.

    It seems when I unplug the MAP sensor it idles a bit better but still runs like complete trash, rush as can be and still missing but just a bit smoother is all ive noticed.

  9. #9
    BANNED! sxcpotatoes's Avatar
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    IAC? TFI? I don't know if it would throw codes that fast, but have you checked KOEO & looked for stored codes since trying to set timing?
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    Member Not_your_grandpas_marquis's Avatar
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    There's no check engine light on which is weird, I know that works because when my o2 sensor was bad it was on but now with thus problem is it not on at all other than just when the key is first turned.

    IAC and TFI were both working 2 days ago before I did the intake swap so ide assume they're still good. I know, bad to assume they're good but I would hope they didn't go bad in 2 days after all the time working.

    I am a bit lacking on how to check codes through the OBD-1 port and no one I know has a scanner that fits the Ford OBD-1 port.

    I plugged the MAP back in this morning, set the timing (AGAIN! I hate life as of now lol), and it is running decent. Idles alright, seems about 200rpm lower than usual, and it sputters and misses when I took it around the block to see if it was running ok. Assuming I'll have to fine tune the timing now or could it be something else now? This is a real PITA for something I've done quite a few times and never had it turn out like this.

  11. #11
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    At least the timing is closer now. It should get better if you rotate the distributor body in one direction or the other.

    If rotating the distributor body clockwise helps (advancing the timing), you may benefit from pulling the distributor and rotating the shaft one tooth counterclockwise. If rotating the distributor body counterclockwise helps, pull distributor and go clockwise with the shaft. Keep going until you find the happy place...

    I recall someone several years ago that put a GT40 intake on an otherwise stock lopo and it was never really a happy engine. Username was N A I think.
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    Member Not_your_grandpas_marquis's Avatar
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    I think that's what I'm going to end up doing once I get a timing light later to dial it in 100% to where it runs as good as it did before(if possible). Hopefully that's all the problem is, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

    As of now, the car has the explorer/GT40 intake, Lightning EGR spacer and throttle body, Mustang shorty headers, modified Summit H-Pipe, and Upgraded ignition (FRPP wires, Motorcraft plus, MSD cap and rotor, Summit coil). I have a A9P ECU, HO cam, and fresh 19lb injectors to go in but only have GTP heads in the junkyard, no GT40's and people want 100 bucks for some stock E7 which I will never pay.

    I will return to report if I fixed it or it got worse. I'll pray to the car gods that it doesn't get any worse haha.

    Thanks everyone for advice, any other info on what it could for sure be is greatly appreciated

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    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    The only other think I can think of is bad MAP sensor since it runs better. Might try with the stock 14# injectors.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  14. #14
    Member Not_your_grandpas_marquis's Avatar
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    I'm most likely gonna try a new one later as well since they're not that much and i can return it if it doesn't help or fix the problem, also going to try and dial in the timing better than what its at now since it still runs like crap.

    It still has the stock 14# injectors, the 19#'s are wrapped up until I get time and a bit more dollars to do the HO swap.

  15. #15
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Are you using a timing light? If not, get one and set it to spec just to rule it out.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  16. #16
    Member Not_your_grandpas_marquis's Avatar
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    Set the timing back to 10 BTC, started it up and timed it with the light until it idled fine. I take it around the block and it's missing around 1100rpm and up.

    I'm truly at a loss, all electrical plugs are plugged in, all used vacuum lines are plugged in and tight, timing is set, checked for vacuum leaks and there are none. I'm getting damn upset and I'm about to pull all my parts off, take her out back and put a .308 Round through the block and send her off. If only I made enough to take her to a shop haha.

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    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Are you using a timing light and looking at the correct point on the timing marks and 0 lines up with said point when #1 is TDC? Missing around 1100 RPM sounds like too far advanced. or possibly too lean if you're using the 14# injectors. I'd toss on the 19# injectors just to make sure unless you have a wideband telling you for sure that it's rich. With the explorer top end, you should have too much air for the stock system to compensate for. Plugging in the 19# injectors may make it too rich, but it may run better at least. With a wideband, you could set up a "adjustable leak" to have air bypass the TB and into the manifold from the zip tube so it would still be filtered air. With the wideband, you could tune that leak so that idle was not too rich with the 19# injectors. At least in theory. It's a grand round-about way to do it, but it might work.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  18. #18
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    I had problems with the EGR valve on mine opening full. Didn't notice it until I put the Explorer intake on. Don't know if the passages were clogged or just smaller in the stock intake but it started misfiring not much above idle and didn't behave until I got somewhere near 4000. Pull the vac line off the EGR valve and see if anything changes.

    It may just be too much intake. Worst case, put the stock parts back on.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  19. #19
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    I'd love to see this work with the 19# injectors... I've always wondered what a lopo cam and 19# injectors with GT40 top end would do if you could get it tuned.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sly View Post
    I'd love to see this work with the 19# injectors... I've always wondered what a lopo cam and 19# injectors with GT40 top end would do if you could get it tuned.
    A9P with a firing order retune.
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