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    Driveability Issues after Head/Intake Swap

    Branching this out of RR thread to put focus on some new problems, and what's been done so far. I'm just placing all of this into a tech thread so I can keep my primary focus on troubleshooting here instead of there.

    So, '87 had a pooched valve on cylinder 1 on the factory E6 heads. Put some HO stuff on in place of factory stuff. Now there's driveability concerns, which I'll explain further down the post.

    The engine received E7 heads, and a HO type upper intake with bored spacer and HO throttle body. All necessary mods to the upper intake were done to make it right for Panther use, however I had to swap over my TPS from the old TB to the new one. When the lower intake was installed, three of us lined it up and dropped it into place. All the bolts dropped straight in to their respective homes with no adjustment necessary, so I believe it is centered correctly since we opted not to use the studs for alignment (despite the fact I wanted to). It has been torqued and re-torqued. All the rocker arms were torqued at 25 ft-lbs.

    When the engine was started for the first time, we did not run it long as we tested it without front accessories installed. It ran for about 45 seconds total. Timing was set at 10° BTDC during this time. It appeared to be running smoothly.

    The second time the engine was fired, the front accessories were re-installed. The engine made a knocking noise from both sides during the first 30 seconds to a minute of running, however the noise stopped after the temperature gauge started coming up and coolant was reintroduced to the block. The idle seemed a bit high, but did come down to a certain degree, however idle did not seem as smooth (however still smoother than when it ran on seven cylinders). When the engine was revved, there was a slight hesitation with initial throttle tip in. In park, the engine could be revved up. A pop (or possible backfire) could be heard when letting off the accelerator on the driver's side after revving it. Some of the roughness was alleviated when I pushed down on some of the spark plug wire connectors at the distributor. It was noted when putting the wires back on, they didn't all have a signature "click" when installed on the plugs.

    On the test drive, you could accelerate somewhat normal with light accelerator pressure, but floored it wouldn't do jack, was slow to pick up and would pop every so often. Lacked power bad.

    While sitting in the driveway idling, it smelled a bit richer than normal, but my nose isn't that great and the exhaust is un-catted, which doesn't help at all. I'm not sure if it's running too rich at idle and too lean at WOT. One of the guys helping me said he could hear a hissing from the passenger side of the engine bay, but I've always heard a slight hiss. The only vacuum lines on the passenger side are the MAP sensor, the main vacuum feed from the vacuum tree, the small vacuum feed that goes to the EGR solenoid, and the EGR line. This car still has the hard plastic vacuum lines, but I've cracked one before, however I doubt that small of a leak would cause the bad of a driveability concern.

    So I do need to see if any codes are stored. I wasn't able to pull anything at the time since I lacked anything to pull codes with.

    After scouring the internet, trying to get any good info for symptoms, I got some pointers, but of course codes will be helpful if there's other issues.

    Current plan:
    -Check codes
    -Replace wires; Questionable connections won't help
    -Possibly try adjusting rocker arms; Interwebz says over-tightened doesn't make the engine run better
    -Check for vacuum leaks
    -Adjust TPS to get it into acceptable voltage range; current setting is unknown and may be out of range

    Of course, the GMN gurus' input is always very welcome since I'd love to get this thing running right. Also, forgive me for the long posts, I'm just trying to put my thoughts in a single spot and this has got me stressed out trying to get it right. I'll try and get out to the wagon next week (working rest of this week) and start trying to do some diagnosing so I can give y'all some more information.


    My Cars:
    -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
    -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

    #2
    Your list looks good. I think you can skip the rocker arms though. If they are the stockers, they are positive stop and get torqued and are forever good.

    I’d check timing over really good as well. I know you said previously you set it at 10 BTDC with spout out. If your balancer is original, there’s a darn good chance it could have slipped with all those miles and some spirited driving. Verify that the balancer is right, then put a timing light on the mamma jamma while you rev it up and see what it gets up to. 3000 rpm is enough. With SPOUT out, computer should not play games with it. Old school says you should see 34ish degrees by 3000rpm... BUT i’ve never actually checked this on my EFI stuff. Or you could always play with the distributor around to see if anything improves or gets worse.
    1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
    1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

    GMN Box Panther History
    Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
    Box Panther Production Numbers

    Comment


      #3
      IIRC, Nick had swapped the balancer before I got it, so it's not the original one if that's the case. I certainly hope it hasn't slipped. When we did the initial firing, when it was dialed down, it seemed to idle a bit better. We probably got it started closer to 22-26° BTDC.

      The only reason I suspected rockers is due to going through several different forums with regards to that stuff. Many people said they adjusted theirs with the engine running, loosen enough until it clacked, then tighten a half turn. I'm more than certain when I tightened up my bolts, they're more than a half turn tight. I don't need to fubar this poor thing up more than I've done to it.


      My Cars:
      -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
      -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
      -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
      -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

      Comment


        #4
        These rockers are not adjustable. You tighten them to torque, and its either right or its not. The engine running, adjust till it shuts up thing is for stud rockers. Stock Chevy engines and modified or much older Ford engines used that.


        Lifter preload is set with shims under the rocker to reduce preload or longer pushrods to increase it. Its easy enough to check even without the dial indicator. Loosen a rocker on a valve that is fully closed. Slowly tighten the bolt until you have zero movement of the pushrod. From that point, torque the rocker to 25 ft-lb. It should be between 1/2 and 1 1/4 turns from zero lash to torque if things are right. If these are all stock parts and the heads and block have not been shaved, and you aren't using one of the extra thick head gaskets for some reason you should be perfectly fine.


        See what the vacuum gauge and the code reader has to say. Give it a second look to make sure there are no open vacuum connections. I've missed the evap line or had it slice open on a belt before. The plastic vac lines are also prone to cracking when disturbed.
        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

        Originally posted by phayzer5
        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

        Comment


          #5
          Got a code 23 for TPS set too high or out of range. Gonna dial that in and see where it goes.


          My Cars:
          -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
          -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
          -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
          -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

          Comment


            #6
            You can always egg out the plastic holes of the TPS mounts to get things within spec of you don't already have the adjustment.
            ~David~

            My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
            My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

            Originally posted by ootdega
            My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

            Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
            But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

            Originally posted by gadget73
            my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




            Comment


              #7
              Car is dialed in. Runs great now, no miss, no ping, no BS. Now I've got a LoPo that breaths better.

              The issue was a few things balled into one.

              1.) TPS voltage. I swapped one from the LoPo onto the HO throttle body since the old one was gone. On the car, even at max adjustment out, I couldn't get it below 1.48v! Now when the TPS was on the old throttle body, I had measured it in range, so that didn't make much sense for it to magic itself way into left field. Then I got to thinking about the stop screw that shouldn't be messed with. Car ran okay-ish at idle, but idled higher than I remembered. I pulled the connector for the IAC to see if it would shut off. Nope. Ran fine with IAC undone. Even idled with A/C on in drive without the IAC plugged in. Someone played with that screw. I let it out will monitoring my voltmeter and dialed in the voltage at .99v. I had full range with no dead spots when I manipulated the throttle linkage, so that was part one.

              2.) Plugs and wires. The heads came with some Autolite 25s in them and I still about a year old set of Ultima Select wires on it. I noticed I had a problem with some of the wires not making the distinct "click" sound when installing, so I warranty swapped those. I also took out the plugs and swapped them for NGK UR45s. The Autolites must have not fared well during the initial firing as they were dirty and crudded up, and one was clearly not doing much of anything.

              End result after adjusting all that was a car that started easily, idled down to a buttery smooth purr, and didn't smell rich. Road test felt like it did before it dropped a cylinder, but with a little more punch. Runs very smooth, even with A/C on. It just about could rival the '97 in running smoothness when in gear, it's just not as quick, but I don't care, it's fixed!


              Thanks everyone! It's been a long time coming.


              My Cars:
              -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
              -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
              -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
              -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

              Comment


                #8
                Awesome.
                ~David~

                My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
                My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

                Originally posted by ootdega
                My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

                Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
                But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

                Originally posted by gadget73
                my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




                Comment


                  #9

                  Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                  rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                  Originally posted by gadget73
                  ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                  Originally posted by dmccaig
                  Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Very good. TPS not working really makes these things run stupid.
                    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                    Originally posted by phayzer5
                    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                    Comment

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