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    Fuel Injector Weirdness

    Let me preface this post that it is not my ‘97 that’s having problems, but someone else’s ‘97 CVLX. I’m trying to help them get this car sorted out. Vehicle in question has 151K miles.

    Anyway, vehicle was sitting for about four years. Person who bought it drove it home, ran fine, but then the fuel pump went out (still has old gas). New fuel pump was installed and the car runs poorly. Catalytic converters start glowing red. Person working on the car took off the cats and gutted them to make sure they weren’t somehow the problem. I was asked to come out and take a look and maybe give some opinion.

    I went out and saw the car. The person working on it put in 8 new double platinum spark plugs and a new wire set. Old plugs were Bosch coppers and were considerably worn out being on the DIS system. Ignition coils were ruled out as we borrowed the ones off my car just to ensure they weren’t a possible suspect.

    The car is hard to start and sometimes needs throttle to get it going. Compared to how a 4.6 should sound, it’s clear not every cylinder is firing when attempting to crank. When the car runs, it has heavy missing and the engine shakes badly. MAF has to be unplugged to get any throttle response, but it will run with it plugged in. CEL has only been set by MAF being unplugged for testing as verified with scan tool. White smoke out of exhaust pipe and smells heavily of old fuel.

    Here’s where my freakiness comes from. It sounds like all the injectors are clicking away, but you can unplug cylinders 1, 3, 5, and 7 with no change to engine operation. If you unplug cylinders 2, 4, 6, or 8, the engine runs even worse and gets close to shutting off. Plugging those even numbered cylinders back in results in the engine remaining on, albeit poorly. The odd number cylinders result in no operational change.

    It is somehow possible that these injectors may be clogged or stuck open dumping fuel while the others are still functional? It just seems odd that only odd number cylinders are affected but even ones aren’t. I also don’t want to throw a set of injectors at it and find out that’s not fixing anything either.


    My Cars:
    -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
    -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

    #2
    Just a shot in the dark, but does it have "fail-safe" mode where half the cylinders shut down to prevent overheating? My 2000 MGM has that, though I don't know the details.

    2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
    mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

    Comment


      #3
      First problem I see is old fuel. Did you change the fuel filter when you replaced the pump? Are you leaving the old fuel in the system (potential issue)? Have you run any sort of injector cleaner or fuel treatment through the fuel system?
      Second, wiring. What is the state of the connectors for the injectors that work vs the ones that don’t? Are the odds more highly corroded than the evens? If there is no difference with the odds, is it possible you are mistaking the sound of the other injectors for them? Are there any plugs that may not be firing?
      Finally, is it possible you had a brain fart and tried to label the cylinders as Chevy does? If you did, you may want to look at at least the fuel rail.
      2010 Mercury Grand Marquis LS “The Douche” - 70mm throttle body, P71 airbox, 21mm rear sway bay, dual exhaust, Dodge rims, 89K and counting. 4/2018-
      1966 Ford Thunderbird (390FE) “Fordy McFordface” - engine rebuild No. 3. 11/2016-
      RIP 2005 Buick LaCrosse CXS “Jumba” - gone too soon, 229K. 6/2017-2/2018
      RIP 2001 Chevrolet Tracker LT “Featherbrick” - gone too late, 156K POS. 6/2016-9/2016.
      Sold 2005 Toyota 4Runner SR5 - 198K. 6/2016-4/2018

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by IPreferDIY View Post
        Just a shot in the dark, but does it have "fail-safe" mode where half the cylinders shut down to prevent overheating? My 2000 MGM has that, though I don't know the details.
        I don’t think the Aeros featured fail safe cooling. It’s not mentioned in my owner’s manual. This car seems to operate at a normal temperature once it warms up.

        Originally posted by ClayBelt View Post
        First problem I see is old fuel. Did you change the fuel filter when you replaced the pump? Are you leaving the old fuel in the system (potential issue)? Have you run any sort of injector cleaner or fuel treatment through the fuel system?
        Second, wiring. What is the state of the connectors for the injectors that work vs the ones that don’t? Are the odds more highly corroded than the evens? If there is no difference with the odds, is it possible you are mistaking the sound of the other injectors for them? Are there any plugs that may not be firing?
        Finally, is it possible you had a brain fart and tried to label the cylinders as Chevy does? If you did, you may want to look at at least the fuel rail.
        Since I’m not the primary person working on this, I only know what I’ve been told. While fresh gas would help for some stuff, I don’t think the guy working on it has any intentions of getting the old stuff out.

        Filter was changed, but it’s still got old fuel in the tank. Allegedly there’s two cans of Seafoam in there too.

        Fuel injector connectors are in good shape with no corrosion or broken ends. I’m rather aware of the noise the fuel injectors make after having heard them for some time in my own vehicle. If there’s plugs not firing, it would wind up being the same ones that aren’t affected by having the injectors unplugged, but that would mean both coils would be having issues with delivery. Again, tested known good coils since they came off my own car. When the person working on the car replaced the wires, he did so one at a time. Plugs are brand new, and it would be oddly specific if those four wound up being bad.

        No brain farts here, Ford ordering is 1-4 on passenger and 5-8 on driver going from the front to the back.
        Last edited by Kodachrome Wolf; 09-24-2018, 01:57 AM.


        My Cars:
        -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
        -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
        -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
        -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

        Comment


          #5
          My first instinct is chewed wiring somewhere.

          Second instinct is plugged fuel rail. I’d be tempted to rig up some wiring and swap the connectors bank to bank to see what happens.
          1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
          1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

          GMN Box Panther History
          Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
          Box Panther Production Numbers

          Comment


            #6
            He’s gonna have issuesof some sort while the old fuel is in there at least
            2010 Mercury Grand Marquis LS “The Douche” - 70mm throttle body, P71 airbox, 21mm rear sway bay, dual exhaust, Dodge rims, 89K and counting. 4/2018-
            1966 Ford Thunderbird (390FE) “Fordy McFordface” - engine rebuild No. 3. 11/2016-
            RIP 2005 Buick LaCrosse CXS “Jumba” - gone too soon, 229K. 6/2017-2/2018
            RIP 2001 Chevrolet Tracker LT “Featherbrick” - gone too late, 156K POS. 6/2016-9/2016.
            Sold 2005 Toyota 4Runner SR5 - 198K. 6/2016-4/2018

            Comment


              #7
              Crank sensor? Cheap part and easy to replace.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by knucklehead0202 View Post
                Crank sensor? Cheap part and easy to replace.
                It'll either start or it won't pretty fair to say it's not the crank sensor.

                Comment


                  #9
                  looking at the wiring diagram and nothing stands out here. The coils are paired but its 4/7, 2/8 on the left and 1/6, 3/5 on the right. If you can confirm the inop cyls again and see if its 6 instead of 7 that is dead, I'd be looking at a loss of +12v on the right side ignition coil. If the red is dead, thats what ails it. If its not that, I got nothin.

                  otherwise the injectors do power from a common +12v but it splits per-side. Basically there is one splice and a leg feeds to the right bank and another leg feeds to the left bank. If something failed there you'd lose left or right, not odd/even.
                  86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                  5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                  91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                  1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                  Originally posted by phayzer5
                  I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Is there enough pressure on the fuel rail? It may be clogged.
                    I've also had #6 and #8 injectors fail (stuck open) and burnout one of my cats.
                    Were both cats glowing red? Easy way to isolate which side.
                    If they both were glowing, there's a fuel or oil burning issue.
                    It's got those super shitty connectors on the fuel injectors where the tabs like to break off. I've had to zip tie them on before.


                    -ryan s.
                    08 Lincoln Navigator L - 233k
                    03 Mercury Marauder- 63k
                    97 Ford Crown Victoria HPP "Tank of Justice III" (TOJ3) - 194k -->578.9 miles on ONE tank of gas<--
                    94 BMW 325i Convertible - 135k
                    73 VW Super Beetle "Bunky" <----- Wifey's
                    12 Mini Cooper S - 90k <---- Wifey's
                    Originally posted by pantera77
                    Well my buddy tells him he knows exactly who loves buying shitboxes.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      My bet is an odd coincidence and you got 4 gummed up injectors in an unusual pattern. Try swapping a couple of the "bad" injectors with a couple of "good" ones, like swap 1 and 3 with 2 and 4 off the same rail and see if the issue follows. You ought to be able to do that on a '97 without really removing anything but the 1 fuel rail.

                      FWIW, Aeros do not have the fancy fail-safe cooling the whales got. They do pull any and all timing and run pig rich in an effort to cool themselves, anyone who's overheated one like I have (3x...) will note the rich fuel burn smell of the exhaust and the super smooth but totally gutless running of the engine.
                      -Steve

                      2006 Audi A6 S-Line FWD ~132k miles, stock.
                      1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS HPP ~102k miles, slowly acquiring modifications.
                      1997 Lincoln Town Car Cartier ~145k miles, Ported Plenum, Gutted Airbox, Mechanical Fan Delete, Contour E-fan Retrofit, Dual exhaust, Cats ran away, KYB Gas-A-Justs, P71 front sway bar, air ride reinstalled, Blinker Mod, Projector headlight retrofit, Caddy 4-note horn retrofit, Wood rim steering wheel, rustbelt diet plan..
                      1996 Mercury Grand Marquis GS 117,485mi. R.I.P. 7/14/12

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I’ll pass the info along to the guy working on it. AFAIK, he’s not doing anymore work on it unless the owner has the money for the work to be done.

                        Luckily those 4.6 fuel rails aren’t that bad to remove and service, especially since the lines don’t even have to be undone.

                        If I happen to wind up assisting on the repairs in the future, I’ll try and update the happenings with this issue.


                        My Cars:
                        -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
                        -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
                        -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
                        -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

                        Comment

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