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Thread: Audio upgrades?

  1. #41
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    The problem you have is that you keep bashing on stuff you have zero experience with. Calling the head unit I put in the Lincoln trash even after I stated the distortion was only at higher levels. This is combative speech. I already told you the limitation and yet you have to call it rubbish even without knowing that the speakers were a little too much for it to drive. I never once said the JBL setup was bad. I said it needed to be a stock setup for it to work it's best and there MAY be issues if only using pieces of it in another car. I never once called it trash. So if you really believe you're not being combative and trash talking, stop using trash talk.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  2. #42
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sly View Post
    The problem you have is that you keep bashing on stuff you have zero experience with. Calling the head unit I put in the Lincoln trash even after I stated the distortion was only at higher levels. This is combative speech. I already told you the limitation and yet you have to call it rubbish even without knowing that the speakers were a little too much for it to drive. I never once said the JBL setup was bad. I said it needed to be a stock setup for it to work it's best and there MAY be issues if only using pieces of it in another car. I never once called it trash. So if you really believe you're not being combative and trash talking, stop using trash talk.
    I do not recall directly saying your headunit was trash, or indirectly for that matter. Only was trying to imply that distortion/clipping is what you should expect when trying to drive a needy speaker with less power than it needs. I've got plenty of experience with that, I wouldn't comment otherwise.

    In your messages you were defending your Pioneers and other aftermarket components, as if defending the choice you made to spend money on them. I was defending the cheaper and equally if not better option of running factory Ford-JBL's. The JBL setup doesn't need to be stock in order for it to work right. Matter of fact, Ashley's F150 is running JBL's from a '97ish Continental with that bottom of the barrel Pioneer deck I mentioned. She's pretty impressed with it, especially over the aftermarket no-name shit that was in there before. How I was able to deduce that I think door speakers from a Mark VII are the more impressive way to go- warmer sound. Statements like "it works best in stock form" or "there may be issues if piecing together" suggest Ford-JBL isn't a good way to go but what actual experience do you have with the factory JBL set-up? How about first hand experience from using the speakers or other components elsewhere like I have? From my years on here, it seems most people go straight from blown premium speakers or dickered JBL amp right to aftermarket or just fire the parts cannon with the assumption that aftermarket has to be better or easier. If you consider this discussion to be combative, then so be it. I can't control how you feel when you read my messages. I try to suggest and defend the factory shit wherever I see a discussion regarding it.
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  3. #43

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    I am about to get a all in one amp and sub in a box to put in the trunk or bolted to upright portion of back seat in my 08 MGM LS. A slim type can be wedged on top of baby spare tire I am hoping and sort of fire into the hole in the deck that was likely for a powered sub not ordered for my car originally. But what wire on back of my stock radio CD is the remote turn on signal? A person on F150 forum posted color codes but there is a conflict. It states that green-purple wire is the switched accessory 12V supply and also the remote trigger. I don't see how that can be. Or are there two green-purple wires? I will of course pull my head unit and see what all it has. The same person on F150 posted pinout for the 16 pin upgrade plug but it too left me head scratching. My car has about four or five thin wires on a separate 8 pin plug off to one side. They match some of the colors for the subwoofer upgrade but there is no subwoofer signal on them. Nor could I confirm a turn on signal on the wire so designated. So who has successfully found a turn on signal from a factory AM FM CD (single) unit from a 08 car to make an aftermarket sub in the trunk sort of work? And what color and pin is that wire on? Thank you.
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  4. #44
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    There's also the issue of availability. The stock JBL stuff is getting very rare at this point and even when you can find it, you may need to rebuild the cones/surrounds. It's much easier to buy something off a shelf and save time (and money depending on how far the yards are and how much you value your time at) in searching for junk yard/salvage speakers. And even bottom of the barrel Pioneer speakers (or Kenwoods, Pyle, etc) are better than the stock non-premium and even premium sound speakers. The JBLs may be better, but how long will they last? If you're a bass head, I'd give them only a year tops before they start falling apart just due to age at this point. If you can find some from a car that was garaged it's whole life and well cared for, you might get 3 to 5 years out of them. I think the later speakers used better surrounds and would be more durable though, but still. There's better materials now for not much cash.

    To the OP: as for the wire colors, don't worry about the color of the wire as much as the pinout. Count the pins and work with that. Subwoofer "mute" is the "remote" wire if I remember correctly.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 98+ Subwoofer output.jpg  

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  5. #45
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    I wouldn't consider the main events (6x9 & 6.5(?)) so rare you can't find them any more, all I've exercised is patience and have been rewarded. The dash JBL's in good condition are indeed as rare as hen's teeth when found in working order though. But even if I couldn't find JBL, I'd start looking more modern. I'm not certain but I'm willing to bet they're still selling cars with 6x9's and 6.5's from the factory. I know Toyotas or Hondas from the late 2000's and or mid 2010's were sold with JBL or Pioneer speakers from the factory. I'd find ways to make that stuff work. I only give the Ford-JBL stuff credit because it does sound good and is a direct replacement, not because I'm some fan boy. I do like JBL, but I just need shit that works and is affordable & easy enough to obtain, which is also what I'd recommend.

    That's a good point. But, due to the cones being polymeric in nature and the surrounds of cloth, (except for midrange coaxial on Townie or VII 6x9's, shitty foam.) I expect you'll get plenty of years of chooch out of 'em. Stuff might even outlast us. Depends how humid the environment of the particular car is. People are still rocking home audio equipment from the 50's and 60's.. Buuut I would advise against trying to hammer any 6x9 with bass and lots of power, none I've tried have lived long under that kind of stress despite what the products claimed. Save that for a subwoofer or be prepared to blow your speaks. The stock premium stuff isn't terrible but the cones do appear to be untreated paper so those might not live a long time. I'm skeptical to say bottom teir household name stuff would be better, mid teir maybe. It just isn't worth it to me to go aftermarket in my autos any more. I'm even converting my K1500 back to stock and adding an aux input that uses the tape deck's wiring.
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  6. #46
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    Personally I prefer new stuff so I know where it's starting and don't have to concern myself with the possible UV degradation. As stated, if you value your time highly enough, just going to the salvage yard would cost $100 in time and gas and time to remove the speakers. For most of the stuff I've dealt with, that's enough for me to consider buying some decent off-the-shelf stock. This is based on the half an hour it takes to drive one way to the "local" yards and the general time I take to pick parts. Also, I've NEVER seen any JBL speakers that were intact down here.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  7. #47
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    I agree with you Sly as I prefer new to old but I did make one exception to my rule when I used my Alpine head unit that I had in another car and later installed it in mt CV along with the amp and it worked out for years until I had to buy new components, 10 years later I went all in on new upgrades on my car audio. So I went to the car audio store with my Apple phone and picked out the new speakers using the music stored on my phone and now I am happy with my set up.

  8. #48
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    I'll use old stuff that's immediately on-hand. No issues there. Hence the reason the Kenwood eXcelon head unit has stayed with me. I haven't found another head unit yet that does what I want AND has internal crossovers that step as nicely as this one does. Most of the ones I've researched have wider steps and less of them. Though, I may look at double din stuff now for the Expedition. That will probably be a few years down the road though since I have other pressing things to spend money on.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  9. #49
    Ford Fullsize For Life! marquis_82_withneons's Avatar
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    ive always been a Kenwood fanboy myself for stereos and amps. their speakers are meh. I will say though that my first stereo install ever when i was younger used a upper level Sony Xplod deck. saw 3 cars and always performed quite well, it did not have an easy life. My 82 has seen several setups but the current setup is the final version. i have Kenwood Excelon headunit, going to the kenwood amps in the trunk which power the Infinity Kappa speakers. some guys know im sure, but Infinity and Jbl share the same parent company Harmon Kardon. either way infinity/jbl are my go to for speakers. they respond very well to additional power but also work nice with factory amps too. im still trying alternative speaker locations also.
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  10. #50

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    Have ordered a modern powered subwoofer which I will mount somewhere behind my back seat or firing up through the existing hole in my deck. I will get high level signal from the stereo pair already on the rear deck. The biggest challenge will be getting fifteen amp wire from the battery to the trunk with minimum destruction of those fragile plastic trim items which are in the way.
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  11. #51
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    Run the wire through the firewall and then down wire chase next to the floors. The wire chase for the stock wiring runs along the channel under the sill plates. Done right, no paneling needs to be removed except the kick panels and under dash panels if equipped. The back seat may need to be removed to help feed the wire into the trunk though. But that's not too bad.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  12. #52
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sly View Post
    Personally I prefer new stuff so I know where it's starting and don't have to concern myself with the possible UV degradation. As stated, if you value your time highly enough, just going to the salvage yard would cost $100 in time and gas and time to remove the speakers. For most of the stuff I've dealt with, that's enough for me to consider buying some decent off-the-shelf stock. This is based on the half an hour it takes to drive one way to the "local" yards and the general time I take to pick parts. Also, I've NEVER seen any JBL speakers that were intact down here.
    I war with that concept all the time. Another reason why I think I'm done trying to make cars into what I want, instead, I think I'll start buying them that way already. Not worth the headache and if I add up the time spent converting, I'm in the red money wise. But mostly, I sit on my ass, so I'm not doing anything [productive] with that time. So I look at going to the yards as a social activity and a way to get vitamin D and prevent the 'beetus from creeping up on me.

    Quote Originally Posted by sly View Post
    I'll use old stuff that's immediately on-hand. No issues there. Hence the reason the Kenwood eXcelon head unit has stayed with me. I haven't found another head unit yet that does what I want AND has internal crossovers that step as nicely as this one does. Most of the ones I've researched have wider steps and less of them. Though, I may look at double din stuff now for the Expedition. That will probably be a few years down the road though since I have other pressing things to spend money on.
    Quote Originally Posted by marquis_82_withneons View Post
    ive always been a Kenwood fanboy myself for stereos and amps. their speakers are meh. I will say though that my first stereo install ever when i was younger used a upper level Sony Xplod deck. saw 3 cars and always performed quite well, it did not have an easy life. My 82 has seen several setups but the current setup is the final version. i have Kenwood Excelon headunit, going to the kenwood amps in the trunk which power the Infinity Kappa speakers. some guys know im sure, but Infinity and Jbl share the same parent company Harmon Kardon. either way infinity/jbl are my go to for speakers. they respond very well to additional power but also work nice with factory amps too. im still trying alternative speaker locations also.
    I want to say I've had an Excelon deck and liked it. That or I almost pulled the trigger on one for my Town Car. I won't buy an aftermarket deck unless it's got adjustable crossovers and eq functions. But if I was going aftermarket for a head unit, the three I'd consider first would be Alpine, Kenwood or Pioneer and not necessarily in that order. As for aftermarket speakers, just like you said; any speaker from the H/K family based on personal experience. Matter of fact, I pulled the trigger on two sets of Infinity's plate 4x6's as I only had one set of the JBL's on hand. They sound OK for what they are. I also did it for another reason- GM didn't use a true external amp with the trucks yet each factory speaker is 9.5ohms. These Infinity's are 2.5ohms each. Maybe it'll be louder now. Maybe it'll just overheat and blow as the factory stuff might not be stable at 2.5 ohms. I'm not an electrically saavy guy so looks like I'll find out the hard way. Unfortunately I have no experience with GM speakers whatsoever and I don't know of any GM 4x6's that were offered as an upgrade over base stuff. Maybe Cadillacs got something better, I dunno. But I'll admit that I didn't have it in me to go about dropping a full day tearing apart random GM cars in search of replacement speaks and then demoing them. I typically do that when I'm not pressed to put something together. I am curious though. Although my experience with GM is that if they used a 4x6, there is most likely not going to be enough room to fit an aftermarket 4x6 and modification will be required, like with my '89 Firebird and now '89 K1500. In the Firebird, GM actually molded the HVAC ducting around the speaker's magnet. I was blown away when I saw that. Nothing aftermarket will fit at all without modification. That's the one mod I did on that car which still haunts me to this day, I wish I never modified it. In the truck, aftermarket stuff fits just fine up front, but out back is a different story.
    Last edited by DerekTheGreat; 04-15-2019 at 07:03 AM.
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  13. #53
    Ford Fullsize For Life! marquis_82_withneons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    I want to say I've had an Excelon deck and liked it. That or I almost pulled the trigger on one for my Town Car. I won't buy an aftermarket deck unless it's got adjustable crossovers and eq functions. But if I was going aftermarket for a head unit, the three I'd consider first would be Alpine, Kenwood or Pioneer and not necessarily in that order. As for aftermarket speakers, just like you said; any speaker from the H/K family based on personal experience. Matter of fact, I pulled the trigger on two sets of Infinity's plate 4x6's as I only had one set of the JBL's on hand. They sound OK for what they are. I also did it for another reason- GM didn't use a true external amp with the trucks yet each factory speaker is 9.5ohms. These Infinity's are 2.5ohms each. Maybe it'll be louder now. Maybe it'll just overheat and blow as the factory stuff might not be stable at 2.5 ohms. I'm not an electrically saavy guy so looks like I'll find out the hard way. Unfortunately I have no experience with GM speakers whatsoever and I don't know of any GM 4x6's that were offered as an upgrade over base stuff. Maybe Cadillacs got something better, I dunno. But I'll admit that I didn't have it in me to go about dropping a full day tearing apart random GM cars in search of replacement speaks and then demoing them. I typically do that when I'm not pressed to put something together. I am curious though. Although my experience with GM is that if they used a 4x6, there is most likely not going to be enough room to fit an aftermarket 4x6 and modification will be required, like with my '89 Firebird and now '89 K1500. In the Firebird, GM actually molded the HVAC ducting around the speaker's magnet. I was blown away when I saw that. Nothing aftermarket will fit at all without modification. That's the one mod I did on that car which still haunts me to this day, I wish I never modified it. In the truck, aftermarket stuff fits just fine up front, but out back is a different story.
    if you like the infinity's, i might recommend the Primus line. it seems to be their somewhat entry level stuff. will of course handle less power but after using them as direct factory replacements they seem to really like the amount of power a factory amp has to offer. mind you this was my wifes much newer Fiesta, but the factory setup would have me to believe its roughly 20-30w per channel. quite nice build quality for the price as well.
    Charlette - Brown 1977 Ford LTD - 351 Windsor 155K Full Custom Pioneer system, green HID, interior & underbody
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  14. #54
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marquis_82_withneons View Post
    if you like the infinity's, i might recommend the Primus line. it seems to be their somewhat entry level stuff. will of course handle less power but after using them as direct factory replacements they seem to really like the amount of power a factory amp has to offer. mind you this was my wifes much newer Fiesta, but the factory setup would have me to believe its roughly 20-30w per channel. quite nice build quality for the price as well.
    When going aftermarket with a factory set up I do indeed go for a speaker which has lower power requirements so the factory amp hopefully has an easier time pushing the stuff.
    With my '89 K1500, I chose to go with two sets of Infinity Kappa 64cfx speakers. I had good experience pushing the JBL versions of these with factory stuff in the Firebird so I went with these. Being 4x6's I don't expect much from them but I tested them while the aftermarket shitty Alpine was still connected and they're definitely good where I hoped they would be, upper midrange and treble. Just got done with all the wiring mods needed to make an auxiliary 3.5mm input work with the factory style tape deck and it all works. So once I modify my dash bezel I'll be installing the factory stuff and testing it with these speakers. Fingers crossed.
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  15. #55

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    To the guy who is worried about the 'beetus creeping up on him...what does that mean? Should I be worried too? Anyway, I need to get the big 8 gauge power through firewall so it can go to the new sub in the trunk area. But how to do that? I watched a youtube of a guy who drilled a hole in the firewall just below and out a ways from the glove compartment in his '05 MGM. This ended up just below the big blower fan mounting on engine side. I have seen warnings from people saying do NOT run the wire along the outside frame rail but why not? If you put some of that black plastic split tubing around it and cable-tie it ever couple feet, why not? So how have guys on here done this?
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  16. #56
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    You gotta go inside the car at some point to get to the amp. The firewall is usually the easiest place to get a wire in since most of the wires go in there already. And since there's a channel there already to run wire on the inside of the door sills, might as well use it. I've seen some run the wire under the car, but then they drill holes in the trunk somewhere to get the wire in. The danger is that road debris can damage the wire, dirt and sand get inside the split loom and wear away the insulation over time, and if the drilled hole is not properly rounded off, even if a grommet is used, it can slice through that and then the wire before long and short to the body. It takes more time to run it through the car, but it is a much safer environment for wires. At least that's my understanding. And I've seen what solvents and heat cycles to do wires in the engine bay much less what exposed wires do under the car... so I prefer to give them the best chance to survive.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 88 MGM (SOLD), 93 Vic, 2000 Crown Vic, 2003 Expedition
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  17. #57
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    The " 'beetus " is an old reference to Wilfred Brimley back when he did commercials about diabetes.. Doubt it's a problem for most folks but I'm an over-fed, long hair'd leaping gnome.. So some exercise and air is good for the arteries and such.

    What sly said. I have/had a friend with a '70 Road Runner. He had his battery in the trunk and ran the feed up to the front of the car through the frame rail or something like that. (I know those are unibodies but upfront is a semi frame of sorts) He doesn't even drive it much and yet despite his efforts of trying to insulate & protect the wire, it rubbed through and shorted out.
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  18. #58
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    +1, use the existing wire chase. There is usually a grommet somewhere you can poke a hole in to add a wire, the rest of the run will just lay right in the factory chase. You may need to remove the back of the rear seat to fish the wire up into the trunk, but thats not a big deal. Better than extra holes in the body.

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    We are talking about an 08, right?

    if so there is a monster grommet on the passenger side firewall you can easily poke a hole through with an awl and pass the wire through. A little silicone to seal it up and then do as the others said and run it down the factory wire chase. See the black wire in the grommet? Thatís the added one.
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  20. #60

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    Yes my car is 08 MGM LS with auto climate control and power seats; not much else. I cannot tell where this image was taken though. Up high behind glove box or below it or off to one side or ?? All I can see from engine side is massive AC evaporator housing and blower fan. But once I get my bearings, I will be better. Thank you.
    And yes I recall Brimley ads with his folksy style selling insulin injection supplies. So far, metformin pills work for me.
    And the lesson with the roadrunner is well taken...Abandoning that idea.
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