Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Audio upgrades?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Dash are 5 inch using 3 screw mounts that require spacer rings to mount 4 inch speakers. There will only be wires to locations that are currently loaded. If you have door speakers, you don't have dash speakers and vice versa. In the Mad Marquis, I ended up deleting the dash speakers and running that speaker wire down and into the doors and running 6.5s in the doors. Worked much better for me. I did have to drill the holes for the screws to mount in the door though.

    The speakers you have listed are good. Also, ordering from Crutchfield, they should include the speaker adapter harnesses (at least that's been my experience).
    Last edited by sly; 04-07-2019, 10:23 AM.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Originally posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Originally posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

    Comment


      #17
      @sly: Interesting. Didn't know that you got either door speakers or dash speakers; I thought that dash speakers were standard and door speakers were optional. I have door speakers, so we'll just buy upgraded parts to replace those. (Do like how they included installation gear on the parcel shelf and door speakers, wasn't sure if one would also need a set for the dash speakers so I linked the adapter just in case). Figure we'll spring for an amplifier; rear parcel shelf speakers are getting replaced so now's the time to upgrade while we're already there, plus power wires and 12 feet of RCA cable. Thanks for your help mang!

      https://www.crutchfield.com/p_070BAK...l-BAK1000.html
      OR
      https://www.crutchfield.com/p_613KAC...l?cc=07&tp=115

      https://www.crutchfield.com/p_007CK8...field-CK8.html
      https://www.crutchfield.com/p_007CME...s-12-foot.html
      Last edited by Hearsesrock427; 04-07-2019, 09:56 PM.
      '89 Grand Marquis "Ebyt", '85 Grand Marquis "Eva", '94 Caprice "Kira"
      '84 Town Car "Stacy", '79 New Yorker “Anita", '93 Town Car "Kelly"
      '80 Mark VI "Allie", '94 Grand Marquis coming June, '79 LTD-S "Oksana"

      Comment


        #18
        hm, I was under the impression they all got door speakers but dash was an upgrade with premium sound. I didn't think you got one or the other.
        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

        Originally posted by phayzer5
        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

        Comment


          #19
          The mad Marquis (88 MGM GS) had the base stereo... which was dash and rear deck. No door speakers. Door pockets though. So maybe it's an 88/89 thing. If you have premium sound, you probably have all locations filled.

          Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
          rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
          Originally posted by gadget73
          ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
          Originally posted by dmccaig
          Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

          Comment


            #20
            Stay away from Kenwood unless you want harshness and over exaggerated treble with lacking mid & low bass. JBL or Infinity. Or better yet, go to a junkyard like I recommended and get yourself some JBL's from a donor Lincoln, they will sound at least 3x better than those Kenwoods.

            Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
            hm, I was under the impression they all got door speakers but dash was an upgrade with premium sound. I didn't think you got one or the other.
            My '85 had the base stereo, dash speakers only. Door speakers were indeed an option.
            1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
            1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

            Comment


              #21
              The Kenwoods I put in the Mark VI were better at mids and lows than the Pioneers in my other cars. The headunit wasn't as good about driving the power though. Sounded fine at low to mid volume levels. Getting a good match between the speakers and the headunit/amp does make a big difference. If the power rating of the speakers is higher than what the amp can produce cleanly, you get crap sound. If it's the amp is too powerful, you can risk blowing the speakers if you crank it up too high. Having amp headroom can be a good thing though. For my cars, I prefer to match (+/- 5%) nominal (RMS) watt ratings. It helps loads.

              Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
              rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
              Originally posted by gadget73
              ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
              Originally posted by dmccaig
              Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

              Comment


                #22
                Kenwood vs Pioneer isn't saying much. Although the last time I listened to either brand, the Pioneers with basalt woofers weren't too shabby. It's been my experience it's better to overpower a speaker than to underpower one. What killed every speaker in my experience was sending them bass signals they shouldn't have been seeing.. Just because they respond to 150hz or less doesn't mean they'll live or like it for extended periods of time lol -use a high pass filter! My general rules of thumb are to start with the gain somewhere around 2/3's for you front & rears and then start to dial in your high pass filters.. If you hear distortion, begin to increase the high pass set point or the dB attenuation until it goes away. Ever since I wised up, I've never lost another speaker.
                1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
                1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

                Comment


                  #23
                  You also have to consider that a car is not really the best place for listening to music, so the difference between decent and great speakers will be limited. Bad will stand out for sure though, but nothing I've unsed in the past 15 years has been bad. Also, most of the folks that have sat in my car (granted, I have subs that fill in the bottom end), say it's better than the old JBL stuff in panthers. I did spend a lot of time tuning the crossovers for the speakers and the subs to blend things nicely. And it's all Pioneer speakers. None of them are paper cones though. They're all stiff materials. The speakers in the doors and rear deck aren't bad at reproducing the low end, they just don't. Like the roll off is at about 80Hz and you literally can't really hear much below 60Hz from them. But since I was building the system to incorporate subs, I didn't care. I wanted good mids and highs from them and they accomplished that.

                  The Mark VI however, the 4-way Kenwoods were actually really good until the amp in the head unit started clipping at higher volumes.

                  Like I said, you have to match things up. The JBL speakers work great with the JBL amp and head unit because they were tuned together. Aftermarket amps for the JBL speakers would be hard to tune because there's very little chance of matching the JBL amp's EQ settings that were designed into it. I've heard gadget talk about how non-flat the response from those speakers are and for aftermarket stuff, it just makes sense to not have to deal with that.

                  Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                  rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                  Originally posted by gadget73
                  ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                  Originally posted by dmccaig
                  Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Have read all this with interest; I put new kenwood coaxials with butyl surrounds in the back of my 08 a few days ago and there is instant improvement in linearity and clarity. The old ones have whizzer cones only and foam surrounds bonded to the upper plastic mesh cover. But still hankering for a low cost bang for my buck to get a couple more octaves down below. The mysterious hole in the center of my rear shelf beckons...Today I looked in my friend's Honda accord and found hanging dead center a round woofer with a giant magnet on it fed by a monoblock behind the rear seat. It was open to the rear chamber as were the two ovals at the corners. This is exactly how I would do mine. A $70 monoblock and a $50 driver will provide nominal functionality I am certain. Will I be the first person on here to do that?
                    "In an insane society a sane man would appear insane." --Spock to Kirk
                    2008 GM LS in Smokestone Metallic

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Slight hijack--my '86 LTD CV has no rear speakers and no rubber bands. I'm guessing the way to go is to pull the rear deck, drill holes and and screw the speakers, undermounted, with the screws from the top?
                      Anyone got experience with putting in aftermarket speakers?
                      I've got an Alpine head unit and MB Quart 6.5s and 6x9s that were in my Mustang; time to drag them out of the box (the 6.5s were in my 300ZX before that...have speakers, will travel!)

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by sly View Post
                        You also have to consider that a car is not really the best place for listening to music, so the difference between decent and great speakers will be limited. Bad will stand out for sure though, but nothing I've unsed in the past 15 years has been bad. Also, most of the folks that have sat in my car (granted, I have subs that fill in the bottom end), say it's better than the old JBL stuff in panthers. I did spend a lot of time tuning the crossovers for the speakers and the subs to blend things nicely. And it's all Pioneer speakers. None of them are paper cones though. They're all stiff materials. The speakers in the doors and rear deck aren't bad at reproducing the low end, they just don't. Like the roll off is at about 80Hz and you literally can't really hear much below 60Hz from them. But since I was building the system to incorporate subs, I didn't care. I wanted good mids and highs from them and they accomplished that.

                        The Mark VI however, the 4-way Kenwoods were actually really good until the amp in the head unit started clipping at higher volumes.

                        Like I said, you have to match things up. The JBL speakers work great with the JBL amp and head unit because they were tuned together. Aftermarket amps for the JBL speakers would be hard to tune because there's very little chance of matching the JBL amp's EQ settings that were designed into it. I've heard gadget talk about how non-flat the response from those speakers are and for aftermarket stuff, it just makes sense to not have to deal with that.
                        Huh? Before I put aftermarket JBL's in my Town Car I had factory JBL's- they sounded fabulous. You might want to revisit those threads from gadget about the JBL amps & speakers, he was referring to the amps themselves.. The JBL amp was tuned to work with the crappy deck, least that's my take on it. The JBL speakers from that vintage are much like the JBL speakers I have in my house from the same decade, slightly forward on treble but once dialed back, they are warm and accurate. Which is why I continuously say that at best, aftermarket speakers will only yield a marginal improvement over the factory JBL's, and I say that from the perspective of a car being a not so great environment for listening to music. Yet I've seen speakers, Focal specifically, which had pairs listed for $600+. That is downright ludicrous.

                        A car isn't perfect, but is just fine for listening to audio when standing still, it's just the speaker placement which gets in the way and all those other technicalities people like to point out. But, a terrible speaker is still a terrible speaker. And if all someone is comparing their "upgraded" setup to is old factory stuff then it's much like walking into a Bose store in search of something better over your TV's speakers or that soundbar someone got you on clearance for Christmas that one year- Of course it'll sound better! But again, what were you really comparing them to? In the case of Bose specifically, that's why you never see any other speakers in their stores...

                        If you were using the amp in your headunit to push those Kenwood speakers, it's no wonder you getting distortion, especially with no crossover(HPF) in place. "Most of the folks" who said the JBL stuff was better.. Hmm, I can't speak for them yet highly doubt they knew what was in there to begin with. And when I replaced my factory tape deck for the Sony (which may have shit the bed already, aftermarket shit..) it was a world of difference in tonal quality and clarity. I don't have too much experience with other people and their set-ups, but the ones I have listened too, boy oh boy, screechy treble and just a bunch of thumpa thumpa from their over boosted sub(s). No midbass/warmth. My poor ear drums. "Doesn't this sound great Derek???" "..er..yeah man, totes!" "Told 'ya you'd love it!"

                        Paper is actually wonderful for creating a warm, natural sound. That's why at least Bose speakers usually do great reproducing the spoken voice. It's when manufacturers go nuts with the polymers and plastics that things drift away from warm & natural. If you look closely at the JBL 6x9's, you will notice that the cones are treated with some sort of polymer for stiffness and long life. It's not all bad, but like most other things, it's a science. Like you said about your speakers rolling off and such, you still want to use a cross over(HPF) to "numb" that signal going to them. A 6.5" woofer firing 60hz into an open door cavity will be less stimulating than a 12" woofer firing that same signal into a tuned ported or non ported box. Which is why none of the speakers in my Townie, save the sub, are trying to reproduce 60hz or less. Even my 6x9's, I think the HPF starts at around 90 or 100hz. You can turn that thing all the way up with no distortion, although that's also because I don't have the gain at 100% on the external amp either, you need to leave some "room" in the amp for the audio tracks which are more demanding than others.

                        Originally posted by bgreywolf View Post
                        Slight hijack--my '86 LTD CV has no rear speakers and no rubber bands. I'm guessing the way to go is to pull the rear deck, drill holes and and screw the speakers, undermounted, with the screws from the top?
                        Anyone got experience with putting in aftermarket speakers?
                        I've got an Alpine head unit and MB Quart 6.5s and 6x9s that were in my Mustang; time to drag them out of the box (the 6.5s were in my 300ZX before that...have speakers, will travel!)
                        I'd go to a yard and find the rubber bands and such rather than drill holes. I used the rubber bands to mount my aftermarket speakers in my box..
                        1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
                        1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Don’t forget the fancy (using the term loosely) cardboard insulation padded covers that go below the rubber bandded speakers in the rear deck.

                          One thin metal hanger hold those guys in place.
                          ~David~

                          My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
                          My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

                          Originally posted by ootdega
                          My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

                          Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
                          But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

                          Originally posted by gadget73
                          my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




                          Comment


                            #28
                            would someone put up an image of these rubber bands? I have no idea of what you speak.
                            "In an insane society a sane man would appear insane." --Spock to Kirk
                            2008 GM LS in Smokestone Metallic

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
                              Huh? Before I put aftermarket JBL's in my Town Car I had factory JBL's- they sounded fabulous. You might want to revisit those threads from gadget about the JBL amps & speakers, he was referring to the amps themselves.. The JBL amp was tuned to work with the crappy deck, least that's my take on it. The JBL speakers from that vintage are much like the JBL speakers I have in my house from the same decade, slightly forward on treble but once dialed back, they are warm and accurate. Which is why I continuously say that at best, aftermarket speakers will only yield a marginal improvement over the factory JBL's, and I say that from the perspective of a car being a not so great environment for listening to music. Yet I've seen speakers, Focal specifically, which had pairs listed for $600+. That is downright ludicrous.

                              A car isn't perfect, but is just fine for listening to audio when standing still, it's just the speaker placement which gets in the way and all those other technicalities people like to point out. But, a terrible speaker is still a terrible speaker. And if all someone is comparing their "upgraded" setup to is old factory stuff then it's much like walking into a Bose store in search of something better over your TV's speakers or that soundbar someone got you on clearance for Christmas that one year- Of course it'll sound better! But again, what were you really comparing them to? In the case of Bose specifically, that's why you never see any other speakers in their stores...

                              If you were using the amp in your headunit to push those Kenwood speakers, it's no wonder you getting distortion, especially with no crossover(HPF) in place. "Most of the folks" who said the JBL stuff was better.. Hmm, I can't speak for them yet highly doubt they knew what was in there to begin with. And when I replaced my factory tape deck for the Sony (which may have shit the bed already, aftermarket shit..) it was a world of difference in tonal quality and clarity. I don't have too much experience with other people and their set-ups, but the ones I have listened too, boy oh boy, screechy treble and just a bunch of thumpa thumpa from their over boosted sub(s). No midbass/warmth. My poor ear drums. "Doesn't this sound great Derek???" "..er..yeah man, totes!" "Told 'ya you'd love it!"

                              Paper is actually wonderful for creating a warm, natural sound. That's why at least Bose speakers usually do great reproducing the spoken voice. It's when manufacturers go nuts with the polymers and plastics that things drift away from warm & natural. If you look closely at the JBL 6x9's, you will notice that the cones are treated with some sort of polymer for stiffness and long life. It's not all bad, but like most other things, it's a science. Like you said about your speakers rolling off and such, you still want to use a cross over(HPF) to "numb" that signal going to them. A 6.5" woofer firing 60hz into an open door cavity will be less stimulating than a 12" woofer firing that same signal into a tuned ported or non ported box. Which is why none of the speakers in my Townie, save the sub, are trying to reproduce 60hz or less. Even my 6x9's, I think the HPF starts at around 90 or 100hz. You can turn that thing all the way up with no distortion, although that's also because I don't have the gain at 100% on the external amp either, you need to leave some "room" in the amp for the audio tracks which are more demanding than others.
                              You should note your OWN setup is JBL to JBL... Yes... that will sound good and fit because it's the same brand. Those of us that don't have that luxury have to build out. If you use JBL speakers in a car WITHOUT a JBL amp... you will have peaky frequency issues because the amp isn't tuned to work with the JBL speakers. Regular football amp with JBL speakers will sound better than the stock speakers, but won't be as good as other speakers. Most aftermarket amps are a little flatter than the JBL speakers that have been used in these cars need.

                              Also, Bose uses DSP in all of their system to EQ all the speakers. I work for the company that makes the sound processors that Bose uses.

                              "Distortion at higher volumes" because I was using the built in amp on the headunit. I pointed that out. It wasn't distorted until it was actually getting close to the "too loud to listen to" area or running ultra-low bass techno. So it makes perfect sense if you stop to think about it instead of getting bent because I said there's something better than old JBL speakers.
                              Last edited by sly; 04-09-2019, 01:37 PM.

                              Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                              rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                              Originally posted by gadget73
                              ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                              Originally posted by dmccaig
                              Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                SLY I read your replies with piqued interest now that you tell of working at firm that makes sound processors. I have been on crutchfield site today looking at alpine monoblock amps (which have adjustable parameters) and a JBL woofer to go on my rear deck where empty hole exists. When you say "football" do you mean the factory amp and sub that hangs on those three metal ears and fires into the foam hole in center of rear deck? I would tap into the rear spkr wires to drive the alpine. I am a true analog vacuum tube guy here for what that is worth.
                                "In an insane society a sane man would appear insane." --Spock to Kirk
                                2008 GM LS in Smokestone Metallic

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X