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    #31
    Should it be easy or hard to put this in my 08 MGM LS where there now is a hole in the metal deck?
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/03-04-05-07....c100005.m1851
    Or should it be possible to put this in my car?
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-2011-L...G/182427883821
    Is this self contained unit what people on here call a football? If I were to get just a speaker only, I would buy a monoblock amp and rig it up with signal from nearby rear full range ovals.
    "In an insane society a sane man would appear insane." --Spock to Kirk
    2008 GM LS in Smokestone Metallic

    Comment


      #32
      The rubber band

      https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1986-19...QAAOSwpJ5cNd1D

      If you look on either side of the short direction of that 6x9 opening you'll see hooks. The band goes there. The magnet sits in the open hole in the middle of the strap.



      As for the amp EQ thing, the curve is tuned to a mix of the speaker, vehicle, and what the designers wanted it to sound like. I very much doubt it was ever intended to be a flat 20-20k listening experience at your ears. Every part of those systems was specific to the vehicle it came in. The speakers do work fine without the stock amp though. I'm running a pair of 80s Towncar JBL rears in mine from a Kenwood 4 channel amp, though I suspect the stock EQ curve gets the most out of them. Despite the significant bump in power and theoretical quality in the Towncar, I'm not sure that I actually prefer how it sounds to the Continental's setup with ancient Radio Shack rears with dead tweeters, those cheap Kicker dash speakers, and a mismatched pair of late 80s Mark VII JBL door speakers.
      Last edited by gadget73; 04-09-2019, 07:07 PM.
      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

      Originally posted by phayzer5
      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

      Comment


        #33
        The rubber band cars then precede the ones like I have where the speaker is screwed in from the top; thus requiring removal of seats and parcel shelf. I think I get it now. Thank you. Still hoping for answer on what exactly the football is? And I do not mean the nuclear codes. I know about that one.
        "In an insane society a sane man would appear insane." --Spock to Kirk
        2008 GM LS in Smokestone Metallic

        Comment


          #34
          Football amp is the older style premium sound amp. It’s shaped like a football

          Click image for larger version

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          2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum (Ice White / Blonde)
          2022 Ram 1500 4x4 5.7 Etorque, Built to Serve Edition, (Granite Crystal / Black)
          Past Panthers
          1989 Grand Marquis LS (Cabernet/Grey), 1989 Lincoln Town Car SS (White/Blue), 2004 Mercury Grand Marquis Ultimate (White/Black)

          Originally posted by Lincolnmania
          if its got tits or tires it's bound to give you trouble

          Comment


            #35
            This looks way foreign to the deck environment in my 08 MGM so thank you for putting that up. Trying to put all this together in my brain before I tear my car apart and hope I get it back together and sounding better.
            "In an insane society a sane man would appear insane." --Spock to Kirk
            2008 GM LS in Smokestone Metallic

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by sly View Post
              You should note your OWN setup is JBL to JBL... Yes... that will sound good and fit because it's the same brand. Those of us that don't have that luxury have to build out. If you use JBL speakers in a car WITHOUT a JBL amp... you will have peaky frequency issues because the amp isn't tuned to work with the JBL speakers. Regular football amp with JBL speakers will sound better than the stock speakers, but won't be as good as other speakers. Most aftermarket amps are a little flatter than the JBL speakers that have been used in these cars need.

              Also, Bose uses DSP in all of their system to EQ all the speakers. I work for the company that makes the sound processors that Bose uses.

              "Distortion at higher volumes" because I was using the built in amp on the headunit. I pointed that out. It wasn't distorted until it was actually getting close to the "too loud to listen to" area or running ultra-low bass techno. So it makes perfect sense if you stop to think about it instead of getting bent because I said there's something better than old JBL speakers.
              Easy there Sly, don't confuse getting bent with being passionate & participating in the conversation. I'm not insulting anyone.

              My Lincoln was premium originally. It went from that to Ford/JBL, then to aftermarket JBL Power Series. First thing I did in my Lincoln was toss the premium amp for the JBL one since it's plug & play and that made the biggest improvement. I have to admit that even the Ford Premium speakers aren't too shabby. But I gained a lot of low end from installing the JBL 6x9's in place of the Premium ones. Bass was tighter & deeper and the highs were clearer too. Further improvement was had going to the JBL Power Series stuff but if I remember correctly those things were nearly $300/pair. Compared to Focals those are cheap, but compared to your typical junkyard price of Ford-JBL's at ~$10 bucks, they're expensive and the sound improvement is minimal over the factory JBL's. This is coming from a guy who has played with speakers from Boston-Acoustics (remember when they made car speakers?? Good sounding stuff, SL95's...) Kenwood, Pioneer, Alpine and Sony to name a few. Those were personal experience, others I simply demoed at Car-Tunes or Mickey Shores, two local car audio chain places near me. Boston Acoustics made some of the best speakers I've ever listened to, but I blew at least two sets of those SL95's in my old Grand Am before I learned things such as how to use a high pass filter and such. It wasn't until I chanced upon JBL Power Series that I came across another speaker which sounded almost as great but could actually live when fed low bass that the box advertised it could handle..

              Well just as you point out things that I didn't mention in my responses, you said you used your radio's built in amp yes, but you didn't say anything about realizing it couldn't drive the speakers. Only that "it started to clip at high volumes" so I pointed out why. And yeah, bass is what demands the most from an amp and what kills a speaker prematurely when the amp can't meet said demand and clips.

              Whatever Bose uses, I still think they suck. Overpriced crap with snob appeal packaging.. "No highs or lows, it must be Bose." All of their home audio stuff has left me less than impressed, and this is coming from a guy who grew up around their crap. My dad, that's all he's run since the 80's.. My personal experience with them was their 201 series compared to JBL Northridge N26's. I had the 201's for about six months when I got a pair of N26's to compliment the Bose on front B. The 201's always distorted, but I distinctly remember switching between front A & B and then running them together only to notice how much better the JBL's sounded and that there was absolutely no distortion no matter how much Metallica I threw at them. I was astounded, especially since well, Bose. They were higher in price, raver reviews and yet mediocre in actual comparison. I cringe any time I see a "Bose" badge. I dunno, maybe the stuff installed in cars is ok, like I've always wondered how that stuff sounds in a C4 'Vette.. Perhaps their headphones are good, people rave about them but people rave a lot about things which are actually pretty terrible, especially when compared to other similar things. I really like JBL, but have been equally impressed with Klipsch, Polk, Infinity (Owned by Harmon, yes..), and B&W. B&W's are about the best speakers I've heard, also the most expensive though. I've said/admitted there are things better than JBL. But the point I'm trying to make coincides with things many have already said, such as a car not being the best environment and such; Given the price of aftermarket speakers vs the price of Ford-JBL stuff found in scrap yards, I don't feel there is a better way to go for our cars. Waste of money. I'm trying to help people here, as Greg from Vanguard Motor Sales would say, "Let my experience help you select the best [speaker] for your money!" ..or something like that.

              Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
              ...As for the amp EQ thing, the curve is tuned to a mix of the speaker, vehicle, and what the designers wanted it to sound like. I very much doubt it was ever intended to be a flat 20-20k listening experience at your ears. Every part of those systems was specific to the vehicle it came in. The speakers do work fine without the stock amp though. I'm running a pair of 80s Towncar JBL rears in mine from a Kenwood 4 channel amp, though I suspect the stock EQ curve gets the most out of them. Despite the significant bump in power and theoretical quality in the Towncar, I'm not sure that I actually prefer how it sounds to the Continental's setup with ancient Radio Shack rears with dead tweeters, those cheap Kicker dash speakers, and a mismatched pair of late 80s Mark VII JBL door speakers.
              I suspect the receivers are different between the two set-ups. Amps make a difference, yes, but in my experience a quality receiver makes a night and day type of difference. I thought things sounded pretty decent with the factory set up but the next upgrade I made was going from the stock Ford tape deck to that Sony receiver. I had to attenuate so much of the lows and then highs, much like an inverse of the curves you've posted in other threads.. When I saw those curves I finally had my answer as to why I had to do that.. Lastly, I noticed a similar difference when I took my Ford-JBL amp out of the equation for the aftermarket JBL unit. I once again had to restore lower bass and mid to upper treble to balance things out again. Then, with those changes in place I replaced all speakers (except for the dash units) with JBL Power series and noticed that slight improvement in sound quality. But realistically for what it is, if I was going to do it again, I'd change the amp and MAYBE the headunit as the stock look is hard to beat and might be more important to me now than overall sound quality.
              1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
              1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

              Comment


                #37
                Just be careful your passion doesn't blind you. Just because you think one brand is crap, doesn't always mean all of their stuff is crap. Case in point... the head unit I used in the Lincoln was suited for purpose for about 80-90% of my listening needs. If I had been able to find a low end Kenwood eXcelon model (without all the "bling" features) like I was looking for, I wouldn't have had the distortion until much higher volumes because those models use a much better amplifier chip on the output stage. I have old eXcelons in my 93 and the Expedition (formerly in the Mad Marquis) and those have been stellar, even without subs. I've had similar experiences with Pioneer headunits. Some work great. Some of the even cheaper ones ... not so much. I've even had good experiences with cheapo JVC. Hell... even the Daewoo I got from Walmart for my first car was decent after tweaking the bass/treble settings.

                You are definitely correct on Bose. They use cheap drivers and a lot of EQ/DSP/box shaping to make up for it. They are a high priced midrange speaker with very good marketing wanks. The sound chips we sell them are definitely good bits of kit though. Many other OEMs use variations of them too. Alpine, Kenwood, Pioneer, Bosch, Delphi, Harmon, and on and on. Most are off the shelf parts from our catalog. Some higher end stuff use some specially modified versions for purpose.

                All this to say... any more, it's really hard to find truly bad head units as far as sound quality is concerned as long as you make sure you get your RMS/nominal ratings at least matched up with, if not higher than, your speakers.

                Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                Originally posted by gadget73
                ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                Originally posted by dmccaig
                Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                Comment


                  #38
                  heh, Bose. Ever hear a pair of 901's? How about a pair of 901's without the EQ? The EQ has massive low end boost to make them sound right. They do actually sound decent but its like +20db around 40 hz. Unless you've got an amp with lots of horsepower to spare its murder. For reference, a 20db signal increase from 3 watts is 300 watts of power.
                  86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                  5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                  91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                  1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                  Originally posted by phayzer5
                  I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Yes... I have heard 901s. And yeah... no good without the system that was sold with them.

                    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                    Originally posted by gadget73
                    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                    Originally posted by dmccaig
                    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by sly View Post
                      Just be careful your passion doesn't blind you. Just because you think one brand is crap, doesn't always mean all of their stuff is crap. Case in point... the head unit I used in the Lincoln was suited for purpose for about 80-90% of my listening needs. If I had been able to find a low end Kenwood eXcelon model (without all the "bling" features) like I was looking for, I wouldn't have had the distortion until much higher volumes because those models use a much better amplifier chip on the output stage. I have old eXcelons in my 93 and the Expedition (formerly in the Mad Marquis) and those have been stellar, even without subs. I've had similar experiences with Pioneer headunits. Some work great. Some of the even cheaper ones ... not so much. I've even had good experiences with cheapo JVC. Hell... even the Daewoo I got from Walmart for my first car was decent after tweaking the bass/treble settings.

                      You are definitely correct on Bose. They use cheap drivers and a lot of EQ/DSP/box shaping to make up for it. They are a high priced midrange speaker with very good marketing wanks. The sound chips we sell them are definitely good bits of kit though. Many other OEMs use variations of them too. Alpine, Kenwood, Pioneer, Bosch, Delphi, Harmon, and on and on. Most are off the shelf parts from our catalog. Some higher end stuff use some specially modified versions for purpose.

                      All this to say... any more, it's really hard to find truly bad head units as far as sound quality is concerned as long as you make sure you get your RMS/nominal ratings at least matched up with, if not higher than, your speakers.
                      I give credit where it's due. I almost bought a Kenwood receiver for the Lincoln and have had them in the past. Ashley has a Pioneer or Kenny in her F150 that came from her old Town Car. I was hesitant to buy a Sony receiver but did after comparing the features and once I learned Sony made the CD player for Townies with that option. Also why I went with a JBL amp, I'm typically an Alpine guy as I've had better luck with their stuff going the distance than with other companies. I think I had an eXcelon deck in one of my cars before.

                      Well, that's like TI instruments' chips.. Those can be found in all kinds of different things, especially in the late 80's through what, the mid 90's? The same dam chip too, like with keyboards and such and even factory radios from what few of them I've actually taken apart. High price midrange speaker.. Hmm, "midrange" might be too much credit in some cases but it's still a great way to describe their products. I think it's safe to say their reputation and status leans heavily on that marketing and packaging combo, bleh.

                      Well, I was really trying to emphasize those factory JBL speakers and especially with a stock set-up. I'm not so concerned with the headunit/deck so much if you've got it feeding an external amp and aren't using total trash. Like I thought the stock receiver paired with the JBL amp & speaks was a pretty damn good combo. I didn't think I'd notice much of an improvement when I went to that Sony receiver but that was indeed night and day & I made many an excuse just to drive places or sit in the car and listen to music for extended periods of time.

                      Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                      heh, Bose. Ever hear a pair of 901's? How about a pair of 901's without the EQ? The EQ has massive low end boost to make them sound right. They do actually sound decent but its like +20db around 40 hz. Unless you've got an amp with lots of horsepower to spare its murder. For reference, a 20db signal increase from 3 watts is 300 watts of power.
                      I believe I have.. Don't those have a bunch of small speakers in a largish cabinet? YEP: http://noaudiophile.com/Bose_901/
                      The one set of these I saw at an estate sale had me saying something like, "Yep, Bose quality right there." as not only were the surrounds gone, but those tiny woofers had started to rot away too, crumbly. But the 201's are similar characteristics, muddy bass and distorted highs.. I didn't know that about the requirements of boosting a signal, only that it definitely taxes an amp. Surely puts things into perspective for me and justifies why I typically never boost, only subtract.
                      1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
                      1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

                      Comment


                        #41
                        The problem you have is that you keep bashing on stuff you have zero experience with. Calling the head unit I put in the Lincoln trash even after I stated the distortion was only at higher levels. This is combative speech. I already told you the limitation and yet you have to call it rubbish even without knowing that the speakers were a little too much for it to drive. I never once said the JBL setup was bad. I said it needed to be a stock setup for it to work it's best and there MAY be issues if only using pieces of it in another car. I never once called it trash. So if you really believe you're not being combative and trash talking, stop using trash talk.

                        Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                        rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                        Originally posted by gadget73
                        ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                        Originally posted by dmccaig
                        Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by sly View Post
                          The problem you have is that you keep bashing on stuff you have zero experience with. Calling the head unit I put in the Lincoln trash even after I stated the distortion was only at higher levels. This is combative speech. I already told you the limitation and yet you have to call it rubbish even without knowing that the speakers were a little too much for it to drive. I never once said the JBL setup was bad. I said it needed to be a stock setup for it to work it's best and there MAY be issues if only using pieces of it in another car. I never once called it trash. So if you really believe you're not being combative and trash talking, stop using trash talk.
                          I do not recall directly saying your headunit was trash, or indirectly for that matter. Only was trying to imply that distortion/clipping is what you should expect when trying to drive a needy speaker with less power than it needs. I've got plenty of experience with that, I wouldn't comment otherwise.

                          In your messages you were defending your Pioneers and other aftermarket components, as if defending the choice you made to spend money on them. I was defending the cheaper and equally if not better option of running factory Ford-JBL's. The JBL setup doesn't need to be stock in order for it to work right. Matter of fact, Ashley's F150 is running JBL's from a '97ish Continental with that bottom of the barrel Pioneer deck I mentioned. She's pretty impressed with it, especially over the aftermarket no-name shit that was in there before. How I was able to deduce that I think door speakers from a Mark VII are the more impressive way to go- warmer sound. Statements like "it works best in stock form" or "there may be issues if piecing together" suggest Ford-JBL isn't a good way to go but what actual experience do you have with the factory JBL set-up? How about first hand experience from using the speakers or other components elsewhere like I have? From my years on here, it seems most people go straight from blown premium speakers or dickered JBL amp right to aftermarket or just fire the parts cannon with the assumption that aftermarket has to be better or easier. If you consider this discussion to be combative, then so be it. I can't control how you feel when you read my messages. I try to suggest and defend the factory shit wherever I see a discussion regarding it.
                          1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
                          1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

                          Comment


                            #43
                            I am about to get a all in one amp and sub in a box to put in the trunk or bolted to upright portion of back seat in my 08 MGM LS. A slim type can be wedged on top of baby spare tire I am hoping and sort of fire into the hole in the deck that was likely for a powered sub not ordered for my car originally. But what wire on back of my stock radio CD is the remote turn on signal? A person on F150 forum posted color codes but there is a conflict. It states that green-purple wire is the switched accessory 12V supply and also the remote trigger. I don't see how that can be. Or are there two green-purple wires? I will of course pull my head unit and see what all it has. The same person on F150 posted pinout for the 16 pin upgrade plug but it too left me head scratching. My car has about four or five thin wires on a separate 8 pin plug off to one side. They match some of the colors for the subwoofer upgrade but there is no subwoofer signal on them. Nor could I confirm a turn on signal on the wire so designated. So who has successfully found a turn on signal from a factory AM FM CD (single) unit from a 08 car to make an aftermarket sub in the trunk sort of work? And what color and pin is that wire on? Thank you.
                            "In an insane society a sane man would appear insane." --Spock to Kirk
                            2008 GM LS in Smokestone Metallic

                            Comment


                              #44
                              There's also the issue of availability. The stock JBL stuff is getting very rare at this point and even when you can find it, you may need to rebuild the cones/surrounds. It's much easier to buy something off a shelf and save time (and money depending on how far the yards are and how much you value your time at) in searching for junk yard/salvage speakers. And even bottom of the barrel Pioneer speakers (or Kenwoods, Pyle, etc) are better than the stock non-premium and even premium sound speakers. The JBLs may be better, but how long will they last? If you're a bass head, I'd give them only a year tops before they start falling apart just due to age at this point. If you can find some from a car that was garaged it's whole life and well cared for, you might get 3 to 5 years out of them. I think the later speakers used better surrounds and would be more durable though, but still. There's better materials now for not much cash.

                              To the OP: as for the wire colors, don't worry about the color of the wire as much as the pinout. Count the pins and work with that. Subwoofer "mute" is the "remote" wire if I remember correctly.
                              Attached Files

                              Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                              rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                              Originally posted by gadget73
                              ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                              Originally posted by dmccaig
                              Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                I wouldn't consider the main events (6x9 & 6.5(?)) so rare you can't find them any more, all I've exercised is patience and have been rewarded. The dash JBL's in good condition are indeed as rare as hen's teeth when found in working order though. But even if I couldn't find JBL, I'd start looking more modern. I'm not certain but I'm willing to bet they're still selling cars with 6x9's and 6.5's from the factory. I know Toyotas or Hondas from the late 2000's and or mid 2010's were sold with JBL or Pioneer speakers from the factory. I'd find ways to make that stuff work. I only give the Ford-JBL stuff credit because it does sound good and is a direct replacement, not because I'm some fan boy. I do like JBL, but I just need shit that works and is affordable & easy enough to obtain, which is also what I'd recommend.

                                That's a good point. But, due to the cones being polymeric in nature and the surrounds of cloth, (except for midrange coaxial on Townie or VII 6x9's, shitty foam.) I expect you'll get plenty of years of chooch out of 'em. Stuff might even outlast us. Depends how humid the environment of the particular car is. People are still rocking home audio equipment from the 50's and 60's.. Buuut I would advise against trying to hammer any 6x9 with bass and lots of power, none I've tried have lived long under that kind of stress despite what the products claimed. Save that for a subwoofer or be prepared to blow your speaks. The stock premium stuff isn't terrible but the cones do appear to be untreated paper so those might not live a long time. I'm skeptical to say bottom teir household name stuff would be better, mid teir maybe. It just isn't worth it to me to go aftermarket in my autos any more. I'm even converting my K1500 back to stock and adding an aux input that uses the tape deck's wiring.
                                1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
                                1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

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