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Thread: 'Sherrie' my 86 Oxford White CV Coupe

  1. #181
    Member clutch47's Avatar
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    Well... The plan changed again after talking to the owner of the speed shop.
    His price on Scat 347's is cheaper than the 331. All of the 'old' myths of 347s being oil burners and short lived are FAR gone.
    The ACTUAL cost difference between reconditioning stock rods, crank, and buying pistons, rings, and bearings only falls about $400 shy of the Scat kit with forged pistons.
    So
    Is another 100hp/100Tq (at least) worth $400.? I think so.
    The cost cascades somewhat with trans upgrades and associated needs but in general I think it's a no-brainer.
    So...Knuckleheads idea is the new direction...
    All FORD All The Time

  2. #182
    I post a lot... knucklehead0202's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clutch47 View Post
    Well... The plan changed again after talking to the owner of the speed shop.
    His price on Scat 347's is cheaper than the 331. All of the 'old' myths of 347s being oil burners and short lived are FAR gone.
    The ACTUAL cost difference between reconditioning stock rods, crank, and buying pistons, rings, and bearings only falls about $400 shy of the Scat kit with forged pistons.
    … So …
    Is another 100hp/100Tq (at least) worth $400.? I think so.
    The cost cascades somewhat with trans upgrades and associated needs but in general I think it's a no-brainer.
    So...Knuckleheads idea is the new direction...
    That stuff is pretty much what made up my mind. That, and my brother found my short block on craigslist for like 700 bucks. Needed pistons but had beefy forged crank and rods. Looking at stroker kits, the 331 and 347 setup is usually about the same price so why not have more cubes? Only bad thing i ever really heard about the 347 was in certain blocks the pistons came out of the cylinders at the bottom of the stroke and crashed shit all to pieces. Think that was only in one of Ford's blocks, can't remember which one. Obviously our stock blocks are not the best for HUGE power since they split in half, but a mild stroker that's running right should be just fine, and fun.

  3. #183
    Member clutch47's Avatar
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    According to the speed shop guy, the stock Ford 8.2 deck block is really decent and light and good for 400ish without worry.
    Tie the bottom end up with a girdle and you can go to 500 even 525 without a lot of worry. Beyond that and they all split.
    With the changes to piston theory and technology, they've moved the pin out of the ring lands and apparently the new skirt designs really abated the old problems by keeping more of the piston inside the bore at the bottom. The bottom of the cylinder being cleaned up nicely will only help long life. I see no reason to expect less than 75K miles out of this engine without much more than regular maintenance. We'll see.
    All FORD All The Time

  4. #184
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Seems to be RPM that really kills it, not so much gross HP. Wind them up and the block starts to flex. If its blowing head gaskets, you're at the edge of where things can start to break.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  5. #185
    Member clutch47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    Seems to be RPM that really kills it, not so much gross HP. Wind them up and the block starts to flex. If its blowing head gaskets, you're at the edge of where things can start to break.
    Agreed. Speedshop guy is twisting some of these Windsors into Cleveland territory. 8 and 9 grand sometimes...
    All FORD All The Time

  6. #186
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    yeah thats not really where they survive. Keep it under 6k and it'll run a very long time.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  7. #187
    Member clutch47's Avatar
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    A re-cap of the weekends events.
    Picked up the donor block. A nice piece of FoMoCo jewelry from an '88 GM. Oil pan and front timing cover too. .. And so it begins.
    Spent some time messaging with Tony from Big Dogs porting. As I wrote earlier, I'm using an early explorer intake. Both halves.
    Since I'm after torque and going to the 347, the plans are changing a little. More work to be done inside the upper. Runner length is the key.
    I'm blown away by the fact that he's getting better numbers from a ported stock intake than every aftermarket intake out there.
    I'm a fan of keeping Sherrie as FORD as I can, so.. this is right up my alley.
    Damn shame I didn't have a set of really great flowing aluminum FMS heads but.. I don't. Unobtanium apparently.
    This mish-mash of parts is going to work as I had hoped. Computer dyno says if I used the Crower 15511 and I'm less than 10:1, I'll be 330ish hp and 360 ish Tq.
    That's plenty. I don't want to kill the drivability of Sherrie that I adore so much.
    Speed Shop guy will be making me a cam so we keep the vacuum up, so that should help in many ways.
    My plan when this stuff comes back is to finish engineering the throttle cable bracket mounting bosses.
    I picked up a bracket and both 1986 vintage TV and Throttle cables so I'll engineer this on the bench before I even start the swap.
    They are in great shape, so it will be nice to have spares on hand.
    Once I have the engine in my garage, I'll start on the trans plan...
    All FORD All The Time

  8. #188
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    Cool. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with for throttle cable mounting on the egr spacer.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87gtVIC View Post
    Cool. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with for throttle cable mounting on the egr spacer.
    All I've ever built is old bikes and a few old cars. So I'm going to TRY to make this simple. I gotta ask a few questions though.
    First.. Convince me I need my EGR for any reason at all.
    Second.. Convince me I need coolant in my EGR..
    Third.. WHY can't I space the TB out from the EGR by about 5/16".. Stick flat steel in BETWEEN the two with a provision to mount the OEM bracket to.
    That's easy like Sunday Mornin'..
    Last edited by clutch47; 02-10-2020 at 05:13 PM.
    All FORD All The Time

  10. #190
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Several folks have reported better numbers out of ported Explorer stuff than as-cast aftermarket. Kind of impressive. Tmoss did my lower, the upper is stock. I talked with him about what I had and he said there probably wasn't going to be much benefit to porting the upper. Money was slightly tight at the time, so I elected to not bother. Its easy enough to yank and send out later if I change my mind. The lower is a lot more of a pain in the ass.



    EGR is kind of a zero loss thing. Its closed at idle and at full throttle, so it doesn't cost you power. At cruise it allows more timing and a leaner fuel mix so its a slight fuel economy improvement. Cuts emissions too. I leave it alone on gas engines since it really doesn't hurt anything. Fuck EGR on diesels though.

    you don't need the coolant either. I did some testing with that a good while ago and I found that the temperature at the lower intake sensor was hotter with the coolant than without it. I'm honestly convinced its more of a throttle plate warmer to prevent icing than an EGR cooler. I've driven my car in the winter and it never got shitty without the cooler hooked up. It might allow for slightly leaner fuel mix for economy, but it would also cost power so no.


    you can use a spacer, just has to be machined well enough to allow for a gasket seal. Nothing a flat plate of aluminum (or steel if you insist) couldn't be machined to do.
    Last edited by gadget73; 02-10-2020 at 05:32 PM.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  11. #191
    Member clutch47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    Nothing a flat plate of aluminum (or steel if you insist) couldn't be machined to do.
    My thinking is like a thick gasket..protruding on the right side as you look down the TB... bent...with nuts welded to the backside. If your EGR has studs on the bottom, perfect place to brace this little jewel. Simply double gasket the TB/EGR with this in between...Done.
    Once it's finished maybe put a flat scan of it on here so some poor bastard isn't trying to cob stuff together and has a simple pattern to go by. I can make it out of cardstock with holes and dimensions...

    So.. From your EGR experience.. I should lose no drivability or other 'quality of Sherrie' experiences by just blocking it and running it dry.? I just might.. Unless ya'll can convince me otherwise
    All FORD All The Time

  12. #192
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    just make sure the computer "sees" the sensor as being closed. Dummy sensors exist. Basically its just a resistor that gives the ECM the signal that the egr is closed, and it keeps it from leaning out the fuel and advancing the timing.

    but no, it won't run stupid without the egr. Mine has EGR but no cooler and has been that way for years with several configurations. Only time the EGR gave me grief is when the VSS signal wasn't connected to the ECM. I also had a bad EVR. between the two, I got full EGR just off-idle. Once I fixed those two problems its been fine. EGR is fully functional. I have the canister purge intact too. The smog pump went away a long time ago.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  13. #193
    Member clutch47's Avatar
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    An update for ya'll on Sherrie.
    347 is under construction as I said. The cam is done. I'll post a pix of the cam card soon. The plan was to keep the power under 5500.
    This thing should make some serious torque. I'm in anticipation of traction issues.
    I've been getting as deep into old tech as I can with the speed density topic.
    I'm finding it's either enthusiastically received or people look at me like I'm the caveman from the Geico commercial.
    One gentleman I spoke with seems to think this will work fine on the stock 'puter.
    Looked into the twEECer. Nice guy at that place and thoroughly knowledgeable on the topic. Definitely an option.
    He seemed to think the D9S I picked up from the Mark VII is not SEFI.... He thought batch or bank fire...
    Can any of ya'll tell me for sure if it is the same as my current engine harness.?
    Megasquirt is also still on the table.
    In the grand scheme of things, both the TwEECer and the MegaSquirt are similar in price so...it'll come down to where my head is at that moment.
    The AOD re-fresh and O/D lockout VB from Silverfox might find it's way to me very soon too.
    I hate to go too deep in my savings but...screw it man. I could be dead tomorrow..
    All FORD All The Time

  14. #194
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Mark VII were never batch fire. Pretty sure only the trucks were. 8 distinct injector lines on the VII.

    ECM pinout is nearly identical. The only difference is the D9S has inputs and outputs for the cruise control servo, and the 86 ECM does not.
    There is no VSS input to the 86 ECM. Ideally you want to add that so the EGR works correctly, but if you're tuning out the EGR, no worries. The stuff for the cruise control won't matter at all.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  15. #195
    Member clutch47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    Mark VII were never batch fire. Pretty sure only the trucks were. 8 distinct injector lines on the VII.

    ECM pinout is nearly identical. The only difference is the D9S has inputs and outputs for the cruise control servo, and the 86 ECM does not.
    There is no VSS input to the 86 ECM. Ideally you want to add that so the EGR works correctly, but if you're tuning out the EGR, no worries. The stuff for the cruise control won't matter at all.
    Thanks for that. I was aware of the cruise control was not clear on if I could still just 'plug it in'.. or not.
    The more I'm learning, the more I'm leaning towards totally deleting the EGR, air pump, and all related silliness. I'm thinking the coolant lines are going to go too.. I'll just have to engineer the right way to make them 'never there'..
    All FORD All The Time

  16. #196
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    I ran a Mark VII ECM in my car for a while. It worked fine, other than being too lean after I changed some stuff on the engine.

    The EGR doesn't need the cooler. I've done some testing and found that the air temp in the lower intake gets hotter with the coolant hooked up with working EGR. I think its actually there to keep the throttle body from icing. Mine has been disconnected for a very long time and it hasn't given me any issue.

    Lower intake is easy. Remove the nipple and install a plug. Depending on the lower intake, it may not even have a tapped hole that needs to be plugged. The tap off the pipe is slightly harder but if you've got a cutoff wheel and a welder you're golden. Doesn't even have to look perfect since its hidden under the upper intake.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  17. #197
    Member clutch47's Avatar
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    A few pix.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Cam card. Should make the juice right where I need it with a smooth(ish) vacuum signal.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The phones at the speed shop. The old intercom that still works.
    All FORD All The Time

  18. #198
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    Obviously the spring pressures on this cam card are wrong.
    I scored some early first-gen FMS pedestal mount roller rockers, an unopened box of ARP head bolts and some NOS Roller lifters 6500-R302 still in the box and cellophane. It's coming together slowly but right on time.
    All FORD All The Time

  19. #199
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    Feels like I got my best friend back.
    I picked Sherrie up from her 'Nap time' winter storage last night. Sure felt nice to drive her a little too fast.
    All FORD All The Time

  20. #200
    fomoco panthers !
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    It will be about another month before any of mine come out of storage. Maine winters are long.

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