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Thread: 'Sherrie' my 86 Oxford White CV Coupe

  1. #161
    Member clutch47's Avatar
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    So here's where I'm at with Sherrie. She's currently bone stock '86 and leaky.
    So when the intake comes off, she's getting a new attitude.

    I currently have:

    Early Explorer upper and lower intake with EGR.
    Both being ported and flowed. I'm going to give the guy at Big Dogs porting a try.
    I have a friend from the dragstrip that is very happy with his work.
    AFR 165's. #1472
    FMS roller rockers
    TF 3/8 hardened 6.250 stock replacement pushrods. Hopefully they are the right length. We'll see.
    BBK 70mm EGR spacer getting bored to 75mm
    75mm BBK Throttle body
    BBK unequal shorty headers.

    I'm going to TRY to run this on a Stock FORD Speed Density computer despite the clamoring to switch to MAF.
    The more I read and speak to racers at the local speed shop, the more I'm believing that SD is better, especially with a custom cut cam for SD compatibility.
    A fella there has gotten into the low 11s with an 87 LX with heads intake cam distributor swap on a stock computer. It works. He drives it all the time.
    So I'm looking for an ECU from an 88 mustang with an automatic... Not sure of the letter designation yet. If the 'puter from the manual car works with my setup then.. I'll use one.
    I'll be using 19lb injectors and basically replicating the mustang fuel system.

    My only real concern is the pistons.
    If these are actually flat tops..with no reliefs.. and they have to be notched...I'm not doing that.
    I'll find another engine and make it a 306 or whatever I can afford.
    So when I get Sherrie back from storage, we're going in with a borescope to see what's in there.
    All FORD All The Time

  2. #162
    I post a lot... knucklehead0202's Avatar
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    So i assume you're going to HO firing order then but doing all this on the stock LOPO short block? I believe these pistons have a slight dish to them, so PTV shouldn't be an issue. What CC are the chambers on your heads? When i put the edelbrocks on my other car(62cc chambers) it made a notable bump in compression, like major. I can't testify to how well you're going to run on stock mustang SD computer but you may get lucky. The cam will definitely have an impact on that, and my understanding is that if you plan to tune it, SD is way better. I went this way and that on the whole tuning thing but after looking over all of it, decided to just run a stock A9P with MAF and let it eat. I know it won't be up to it's full potential but the implications of driveability and smog legality led to take a big step back on my aspirations.

    Over the years i have personally run, and known lots of people running pretty exotic shit on stock computers so i know it works, despite being a bit archaic, especially given the variety of options for tuning and standalone setups. I really wanted to run a Megasquirt PIMP but found out that MS disables all emissions controls and that won't fly here. Quarterhorse is way more work than i'm willing to put in and the Anderson PMS has quirks that i also don't really want to deal with. I have a PMS if you're interested in it by the way.

  3. #163
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    With the additional air as well as the next step injectors... it MIGHT work. Just don't be surprised if it doesn't work. You should probably look into putting a wide band gauge on your setup so you can see how the ECM copes with the combo. If it's generally staying in the happy zones (little rich at WOT, little lean at idle, and centered cruising) you should be good.

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  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by knucklehead0202 View Post
    So i assume you're going to HO firing order then but doing all this on the stock LOPO short block?
    Yep, if it works. I wonder how the LoPo firing order would make power.?
    I believe these pistons have a slight dish to them, so PTV shouldn't be an issue. What CC are the chambers on your heads? 60cc
    When i put the edelbrocks on my other car(62cc chambers) it made a notable bump in compression, like major. I can't testify to how well you're going to run on stock mustang SD computer but you may get lucky. The cam will definitely have an impact on that, and my understanding is that if you plan to tune it, SD is way better. I went this way and that on the whole tuning thing but after looking over all of it, decided to just run a stock A9P with MAF and let it eat. I know it won't be up to it's full potential but the implications of driveability and smog legality led to take a big step back on my aspirations.

    Over the years i have personally run, and known lots of people running pretty exotic shit on stock computers so i know it works, despite being a bit archaic, especially given the variety of options for tuning and standalone setups. I really wanted to run a Megasquirt PIMP but found out that MS disables all emissions controls and that won't fly here. Quarterhorse is way more work than i'm willing to put in and the Anderson PMS has quirks that i also don't really want to deal with. I have a PMS if you're interested in it by the way.We could talk about that on a PM....

    Quote Originally Posted by sly View Post
    With the additional air as well as the next step injectors... it MIGHT work. Just don't be surprised if it doesn't work. Fingers crossed
    You should probably look into putting a wide band gauge on your setup so you can see how the ECM copes with the combo. If it's generally staying in the happy zones (little rich at WOT, little lean at idle, and centered cruising) you should be good Please Recommend me a wideband that isn't extravagant. .
    I've built a few cars over the years, all carbureted. My only experience with E.F.I. was on a friends drag race Harley running a Megasquirt. It was pretty incredible.
    This car is my first computer controlled project that I'm going this far with. So it's all learning for me.
    Last edited by clutch47; 01-16-2020 at 01:24 PM.
    All FORD All The Time

  5. #165
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    A lot of these set ups are for drag racers where the car may run fine at wide open throttle but have poor drivability at low and mid throttle. Only way to know for sure is to do it. All cars act differently may get luckily.
    ~David~

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    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87gtVIC View Post
    A lot of these set ups are for drag racers where the car may run fine at wide open throttle but have poor drivability at low and mid throttle. Only way to know for sure is to do it. All cars act differently may get luckily.
    I'm the UNLUCKY poster child. Remember I said that.
    The W.O.T. was definitely the case with that Harley. I added a separate fuel circuit to the throttle body that it idled on...
    If you want to call it an idle...
    Last edited by clutch47; 01-16-2020 at 01:31 PM.
    All FORD All The Time

  7. #167
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    the Mark VII ECM is more available. Speed density, automatic, HO, 19#.

    Speed density can work right, but its probably going to need a tune to do it. Stock, its very likely to run lean. I had less airflow through mine and it ran somewhere near 18:1. Honestly the single biggest reason people convert to mass air is that its less fiddly about changes. The other thing is that most of the Ford 5.0 tuning knowledge base is for Mustangs, which were all mass air from 89 on, and many 86-88 have been converted. If you can find someone who can actually do a tune with speed density you're good to go.

    Megasquirt is speed density, so are many other aftermarket systems.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

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    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  8. #168
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    You may get some good info by talking to Ed Curtis at FTI. He does custom cams and should have some insight into what will work with SD and your setup. With 60cc heads on the stock LOPO pistons i'll wager your compression will be close to 10:1. I had to back timing off to quell pinging with mine and 62cc chambers, although i'll allow that AFR's have a better design than my Edelbrocks so it may not be an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by knucklehead0202 View Post
    You may get some good info by talking to Ed Curtis at FTI. He does custom cams and should have some insight into what will work with SD and your setup. With 60cc heads on the stock LOPO pistons i'll wager your compression will be close to 10:1. I had to back timing off to quell pinging with mine and 62cc chambers, although i'll allow that AFR's have a better design than my Edelbrocks so it may not be an issue.
    Appreciate that advice. My cars routinely burn 91 or better and compression is good. I'll keep a good eye on that.
    I'm still not convinced to go to the HO firing order. I have a great engine shop/cam grinder that I deal with so it will get a SD happy cam of some sort.
    So... do I have a LoPo 'on steroids' cam cut, or swap the computers and go with the HO/mustang plan.? As I've read, many people are fond of the '86 HO cam.
    HHHmmmm...
    All FORD All The Time

  10. #170
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    the HO firing order is better for the life of the bottom end bearings. The "Lopo knock" is a thing for a reason.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    the HO firing order is better for the life of the bottom end bearings. The "Lopo knock" is a thing for a reason.
    I'm not afraid of that.. What I am afraid of is the 'elephant' in the room so to speak.
    The LoPo has that little bit of LOW oomph that might be lost when the HO thing happens.
    I kinda like the LoPo manners. All I want is twice as much of it.
    Maybe this little top end and a switch from the 3.08 to the 3.73 would make me laugh even harder.?..
    All FORD All The Time

  12. #172
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    thats nothing to do with the firing order, its all about the camshaft. Stuff an Explorer cam in there if you want the same seat of the pants feel, but just more of it. Done for by about 4500, where the stock cam is done for about 4200. Basically the same power curve, just a little more of it.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  13. #173
    Member clutch47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    thats nothing to do with the firing order, its all about the camshaft. Stuff an Explorer cam in there if you want the same seat of the pants feel, but just more of it. Done for by about 4500, where the stock cam is done for about 4200. Basically the same power curve, just a little more of it.
    That could be an option...great idea.
    Maybe my local cam grinder guy can give me the Explorer cam+++ or so..
    I'll be seeing him later today, so seeing this post is right on time.
    All FORD All The Time

  14. #174
    I post a lot... knucklehead0202's Avatar
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    Do a LoPo 347 stroker for extra torque? Lol, that'd be something.

  15. #175
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    Trying to find a deal on a shortblock. I found a bare SVO 8.2 block rough bored to 4.080..for a song.
    If this works out, my project will take a different direction. If I find a GOOD shortblock first, then I'll go that way.
    All FORD All The Time

  16. #176
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    Go with the Blue Print 5.0L short block you will need to use the H.O 5.0L fireing order and redo the wireing harness to make it compatable for the H.O 351 fireing order or get a Lincolin Mark VIII computer. Good luck

  17. #177
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    Found a shortblock. $100. Running '87 car. 266K miles. Damn thing has great oil pressure too..LOL...
    Also found a set of Eagle rods new in the box for a hundie. So I'm going to go .060 over and use better rods. I'm sure I'll stumble on a deal for 60 over pistons somewhere. If the deal is on a set of forged ones, so be it. Here we go..
    All FORD All The Time

  18. #178
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Some of those late blocks aren't able to go that far. 40 over is typically the max that is safe unless you sonic check the walls to make sure they are thick enough. Honestly, boring it out the least you can go to make the holes round again is the right amount. The couple of cubic inches is not going to make any real difference. Mine is 20 over, but apparently thats a very difficult size to get anymore. 30 over is the usual.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    Some of those late blocks aren't able to go that far. 40 over is typically the max that is safe unless you sonic check the walls to make sure they are thick enough. Honestly, boring it out the least you can go to make the holes round again is the right amount. The couple of cubic inches is not going to make any real difference. Mine is 20 over, but apparently thats a very difficult size to get anymore. 30 over is the usual.
    I'll let my machinist guy tell me what's best. I think he sonic checks every block just for quality sake. I know he did my Cleveland to make sure the 'core shift' problem everyone clamors about wasn't going to be an issue. Thankfully there was none..
    The .060 idea is a shot in the dark. I've been seeing an abundance of .060 piston sets in the classifieds. If I can save a few bucks by punching it further..So be it.
    All FORD All The Time

  20. #180
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    realistically none of us are likely to actually wear out a properly tuned rebuild on one of these things. Even if you're fanatical and decide to break it down at 100k, how many years is that going to take on something that isn't daily driven?

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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