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    #31
    The throttle kicker isnt supposed to hold vacuum except when the throttle is engaged. Its like a controlled vacuum leak when the throttle is closed to keep the engine from stalling when the throttle is snapped shut and when the engine is under load like when the ac is on.

    Also it looks like your tv grommet is held on by a zip tie. Better get that replaced before it completely falls off.

    Where is that “enterprise” looking thing located? I still have some pics from my 85 Ive been looking at for reference. I also have a shop manual somewhere.

    Also is it throwing any codes?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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      #32
      Originally posted by 87GrandMarq View Post
      Where is that “enterprise” looking thing located?
      On the passenger fender, just down from the MAP sensor.


      I gotta say, i'm getting a feeling that the EGR isn't the issue here. Looking at the vacuum behaviour, it seems uniform. If anyone has verified info about the egr behaviour with this kind of egr, please do link. Further driving with the egr hooked up or not, doesn't really change how it runs.

      It has to be an idle issue, rough idle, jerkiness at low throttle and decelerating. Fuel delivery, vacuum leak (still...) or else. These early injection cars are definitely not my forte, a carb i can understand and adjust stuff to cross off things.

      I'll check out the codes when I get the time and a quiet moment, engine light has stayed off as long as I've had this car.
      1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
      1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

      Comment


        #33
        Oh I bet you that thing is a check valve.

        As far as the egr is concerned it works the same as any other egr system. If stuck open itll cause rough idle. If stuck shut it can cause pinging while cruising.

        Check the tps throughout the entire range with a multimeter, in addition to running codes, checking fuel pressure and base timing.

        My 85 ran the best with the o2 sensor unplugged lol. But thats only because it runs off a predetermined table to prevent engine failure lol. But it did get rid of the rolling idle!


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

        Comment


          #34
          The air injection diverter valve hose mess... yeah... 80s smog equipment. Don't miss it.

          Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
          rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
          Originally posted by gadget73
          ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
          Originally posted by dmccaig
          Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

          Comment


            #35
            since it doesn't change EGR connected or not, thats probably not it unless it never closes fully.

            Have you confirmed the timing is correct and stable?
            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

            Originally posted by phayzer5
            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

            Comment


              #36
              Was gonna check codes today, didn't have the time. I had removed the battery for a while and reconnected it and went for a short ride to get properly warmed up and get fresh codes (whenever i get to those).
              New symptoms: when hot, idle in gear surges a little bit. Tapped the throttle when idling on park, it bogged really bad for a second and just barely got the idle back to the usual unevenness. Tapped the throttle again, bogged so hard it stalled.

              I swear I'll get the codes tomorrow.
              1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
              1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

              Comment


                #37
                For a half hour I fiddled with the self-test connectors as I just couldn't get the engine light blinking. I just gave up and tried the test light method, in the guide that @gadget73 kindly linked to this thread. Which worked excellent, so my engine lights broken?
                With that, I got the following results:

                KOEO code 31= PFE or EVP circuit below minimum voltage of 0.24 volts.

                CM code 18= IDM circuit failure or SPOUT circuit grounded.

                CM code 63= TPS circuit has intermittently failed below minimum 0.6 volts.

                For the PFE/EVP, aren't those pretty much the same thing? Of course there's the wiring too. But a new sensor eh?
                SPOUT wiring is a bit crappy, I'll have to go through it, but what is this IDM (Ignition Diagnostic Monitor)?
                For the TPS, just a new sensor or is there any point in trying to fix the old? (parts availability isn't so good in Finland)
                1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
                1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

                Comment


                  #38
                  31 is the egr position sensor. Depends what equipment the car has what the code represents but basically it means that it thinks the egr valve is too closed. Most likely the sensor is bad.

                  63 means the TPS is bad or dying or has been bad or dying at some point since the last time the battery was out. This causes stalling and general running problems.

                  18 could mean the 22k resistor that sits between the coil - and the ECM is bad. If you trace the wiring from the coil, a short distance away on the green wire (I think its the green, its on the terminal with 2 wires) you'll find a plastic blob molded over the wire. You should be able to measure 22k from one side of that to the other. If its bad, the computer doesn't know what the ignition timing is doing and it gets stupid.

                  Its worth doing the engine running test too.


                  BTW, the engine light means no oil pressure or the engine is overheating. It is not a computer light. That one is a "Check Engine" light, and is only found on 89+ models. I usually consider the red one to be the "replace engine" light because something very bad has happened if it comes on.
                  86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                  5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                  91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                  1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                  Originally posted by phayzer5
                  I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                  Comment


                    #39
                    I had the battery disconnected yesterday and after that I went for a little cruise to get those codes fresh.
                    I'll have to check that resistor, can the ECM's go bad just like that? Also the yellow wire on the spout connector is missing like 5cm of its insulation...
                    As an uninitiated, what do you mean by "the engine running test"?

                    So, on these older EEC-IV cars I can't read the codes by a blinking engine light? The guide didn't mention that...
                    I'll go asking around the finnish stores for TPS and EGR sensors, we'll see. I might just go and order everything from rockauto after all.
                    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
                    1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

                    Comment


                      #40
                      The engine running test is the same test you did but with the engine running. Full warm up the engine before you do it. Also

                      And yes no blinking check engine light until 89, with a sprinkled in in 87/88. They actually say “check engine” where the other cars have the optional check oil or low washer fluid light, at least on the Ford cars. Not sure about Merc or Lincoln.
                      1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
                      1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

                      GMN Box Panther History
                      Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
                      Box Panther Production Numbers

                      Comment


                        #41
                        ECM rarely goes bad, but the resistor could. Its definitely the cheapest thing it could be. If thats fine, then you're into checking the wiring harness from whatever ECM pin back to the coil. I don't have a wiring diagram in front of me, but its in the EVTM.
                        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                        Originally posted by phayzer5
                        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Surprisingly had some spare time and installed the new tps and egr position sensor.
                          No real change, curb idle in park/neutral possibly a bit better.

                          Need to check that IDM and SPOUT wiring and connectors. Advice appreciated...
                          1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
                          1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

                          Comment


                            #43
                            This diagram will may help in understanding that system.


                            With SPOUT connector in, TFI disconnected, ECM disconnected, and Coil Disconnected you should measure close to:
                            0 ohms - TFI connector pin 1 to ECM pin 56
                            0 ohms - TFI connector pin 2 to ECM pin 36
                            0 ohms - TFI connector pin 3 to (?) drawing a blank on this one, but if it starts this is not your problem.
                            0 ohms - TFI connector pin 4 to coil connector Positive side
                            0 ohms - TFI connector pin 4 to Ignition Relay (the fender mounted solenoid if I'm not mistaken, opposite post that the battery + cable connects to)
                            22K ohms - TFI connector Pin 5 to ECM connector Pin 4
                            0 ohms - TFI connector Pin 5 to Coil connector Negative side
                            22K ohms - Coil connector Negative side to ECM connector Pin 4
                            0 ohms - TFI pin 6 to ECM pin 16

                            Also, the SPOUT connector should measure close to 0 ohms.

                            This will help for EEC/ECM pin identification:

                            EEC pinout chart if interested: http://www.grandmarq.net/oldfuelinje...0Lpinouts.html
                            Vic

                            ~ 1989 MGM LS Colony Park - Large Marge
                            ~ 1998 MGM LS - new DD
                            ~ 1991 MGM LS "The Scab"
                            ~ 1991 MGM GS "The Ice Car"

                            Comment


                              #44
                              TFI connector pin 4 to Ignition Relay - wasn't 0 ohms, showed around 8k to 10k (on 200k)
                              The relay-end shown had an insulated 90 degree plug-wire style connector which broke
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                              Other resistance values were fine.

                              Otherwise, the TFI connector just looks crappy, wires 1 & 2 from the TFI are wrapped in this chrome tape and some wire... Factory or not?
                              The SPOUT wire is missing a lot of it's insulation (I'll fix at some point) and the TFI connector and pretty much every other connector in this car has absurd amounts of this dielectric grease or whatever.
                              Click image for larger version

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                              Also the choke pull-off doesn't react to vacuum at all and leaks, so I got to plug that off for a small vacuum leak less.
                              1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
                              1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Based on the diagram it should just be wire between TFI pin 4 and the ignition relay, so 8k-10k ohms seems way too high.
                                If the same point on the ignition relay to the + side of the coil was closer to 0 then the issue would seem to be between the fork (wherever that is in the loom) and the TFI connector, quite possibly that TFI connector connector from the looks of it.

                                I've broken that 90 degree connector with boot on one of mine. A ring terminal and nut, or harvest one from thy JY and solder it to existing wire will get you going.

                                The chrome tape stuff you see is the shielding. It should be grounded at one end, usually on the driver side fender. If you measure resistance of that, it will be the shielding to ground and should be close to 0. The shielding is supposed to protect those wires from interference that could induce unwanted signaling to the TFI/ECU.

                                I'm not familiar with CFI cars, but the missing insulation does not seem right to me, although I think I have seen that before. Also, a question for someone who might know, it looks like there is an actual connector for spout instead of a jumper like I'm used to seeing on SEFI cars. Is that stock for CFI?


                                Kisky, are these symptoms similar to what you dealt with our your CFI car(s)?
                                Vic

                                ~ 1989 MGM LS Colony Park - Large Marge
                                ~ 1998 MGM LS - new DD
                                ~ 1991 MGM LS "The Scab"
                                ~ 1991 MGM GS "The Ice Car"

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