PotM GrandMarq.NET - Panther Headquarters Forum Index PotM
GMN Chat Room GMN's STORE!! GMN's Gallery Please!!
Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: 89 Colony Park receiving 96 V8 GT40 complete motor.

  1. #1
    Southern
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    840

    Default 89 Colony Park receiving 96 V8 GT40 complete motor.

    As I've posted in the project thread, my 89 Colony Park's original 5.0 was smoking badly. Really badly worn rings. No fix in a bottle worked. Someone before me had overheated the car a few times due to the timing cover gasket leak (probably failure to change the coolant!!).

    Anyways - I have a complete 1996 Ford Explorer V8 GT40 (not P) - 120K. Zach was nice enough to help pull that engine. It's on an engine stand now. I've torn it down. Plenium, lower intake and heads are off. Heads are at the machine shop getting tested, freshened up with new valve seals, etc.

    I'm going to swap over valve covers from Colony Park as well as the oil pan. I have some 90 Town Car manifolds to install as well. I have the lightening EGR Spacer to install. And I'll use the Explorer lower intake with fuel injectors already on it/mounted. I guess I use the Explorer plenum too, turned around. Swap over the oil filter housing too - can't forget that!!

    That's all easy...this is where I need a bit of assistance.

    1) I believe I can use the throttle arm mount from the Colony Park on the Explorer throttle body (so I have the mount for the TV cable)? Grind the knurl off, move arm over and tap with a threaded hole or weld it in place. Is this correct?

    2) IAT - this needs to have a hole milled into the lower intake IIRC. I imagine the machine shop can do that for me.

    3) PCM - There's a Bill Blass PCM and an LSC PCM. Bill Blass is 3.08 (like my wagon currently) and LSC is 3.27 (what I'd like to do). Should I be able to use a Bill Blass for now? I know to swap plug wire routing.

    4) Is the flexplate mounted at a specific point on the crank? I removed it from the explorer before noting its position. Or do I use the flexplate off the Colony park? I should have checked or marked its position at least. My fault...


    Is there anything else to be aware of?
    -Nick M.
    Columbia, SC

    66 Squire, 89 Colony Park, 90 TC, 03 (2x) TC, 06 TC, 07 TC
    03 BMW 540iT, 05 GMC Yukon (tahoe)

  2. #2
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Whitestone, NY
    Posts
    18,728

    Default

    1 yes grind the nub off and drill and tap or reweld the original panther arm.

    2 yes. I’ve done it myself. You can buy the drill bit and the tap to do it yourself.

    3 I dont believe it cares about the rear end gear set.

    4 flex plate only goes on one way iirc. You’ll see when you place it up to the crank. Cannot say if you can use the explorer piece.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  3. #3
    Southern
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    840

    Default

    Oh the holes aren’t equidistant apart. I love old Ford engineering! Except for their stupid pulley setup on the panther 5.0s

    Thanks David!
    -Nick M.
    Columbia, SC

    66 Squire, 89 Colony Park, 90 TC, 03 (2x) TC, 06 TC, 07 TC
    03 BMW 540iT, 05 GMC Yukon (tahoe)

  4. #4
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    38,163

    Default

    The early intakes have a boss cast in the lower where the sensor goes. Tap is 3/8 NPT, and you need whatever drill size gets used for that. Its not a big deal to DIY. Get a good pipe tap though, you want one with nice shiny flutes. The cheap-ass ones with the dull finish don't have good cutting edges and you'll play hell with it. Use cutting fluid.

    All the mfg use the offset bolt pattern on the flexplate. The balance weights have to be oriented at a specific point relative to the crank and any engineer worth a damn would make it impossible to assemble that wrong. Just imagine the warranty re-works if the thing could be installed wrong. Brand new cars having the engine or trans removed to re-clock the flexplate due to vibration problems.

    If you think Panther pullies are bad, you should see what GM was doing in the late 70s with their V belt cars. Everything sucks until you find something that sucks worse.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  5. #5
    Southern
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    840

    Default

    Thanks Thane. Makes sense. I went and looked at it and I see it now! Just a little difference.

    Good tip on tap and die. Noted.

    Hahah ain’t that the truth! And well aware of the malaise era beginnings of GMs. Nightmare indeed!
    -Nick M.
    Columbia, SC

    66 Squire, 89 Colony Park, 90 TC, 03 (2x) TC, 06 TC, 07 TC
    03 BMW 540iT, 05 GMC Yukon (tahoe)

  6. #6
    Fastest Box In South Jersey 86VickyLX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Westmont, New Jersey
    Posts
    10,309

    Default

    You will use your oilpan. You will need an oil pickup tube for a panther/mustang. Ideally the explorer injectors are better but the mark vii pcm is expecting the old style 19lb injectors so fueling will be a bit off. The mark VII computer you should be using is the D9S computer.
    You will use the factory panther fuel rail. The explorer one hooks up at the back of the engine instead of the front, and the explorer's placement of the fpr will require an intake spacer for the plenum to be flipped around.
    "Vicky" 1986 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX ..................................."Blue" 1992 Mercury Grand Marquis LS

    Vicky
    Too much stuff to list in my signature...
    Blue
    Gone! But Parts from it will live on in others!


  7. #7
    I post a lot...
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Yonkers NY
    Posts
    3,972

    Default

    Are the explorer injectors still 19lbs. but just the later design?
    "X" car 89 Colony Park LS Mods>Engine delete, SS duals magnaflow hflow cats, 2010 Must GT mufflers, auto air shocks, Posi, Tran cooler, big front brakes, 03+ rear disks, Large 3g alt, Tripminder, GS grill, 86 seats, 16" HPP wheels, winter boots=96 Cartier wheels, 215-65/16 Goodyear ULTRA GW3 snows, pi rear sway, alum driveshaft.
    03 Marauder DBP, HS, 6disk, Organizer, Silver Stars, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector.
    02 SL500 Silver Arrow
    08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated Cooper Zeon RS3-A, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17

  8. #8
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    38,163

    Default

    yes.

    Just be aware that it may not run quite right even with the old style 19# with speed-density. I ran what amounted to an Explorer motor with that ECM and it was bad lean. I had ported E7 heads rather than the GT40, but same cam and intake. I may have been flowing slightly more air than stock GT40 but with a stock lower intake I doubt the difference was significant. Either way I dynoed the thing at around 15:1 at best and at points it was closer to 18:1 air:fuel. It pinged and sucked a lot more gas than it should have. You wouldn't think running lean would burn more fuel, but it was more because of the lack of HP. Converting it to mass air even without any tune work made a huge difference and got me nearly 2 mpg. I'm running more cam and a ported intake now, and I know it makes more power. Fuel economy is actually better with this setup than it was running lean with a lot of stock Explorer parts, mostly because the fuel is actually where it should be.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  9. #9
    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Evans, GA
    Posts
    1,486

    Default

    We’re certainly aware of the possibility a mass air swap may be required. Nick’s going to start with the Mark VII speed density system and we will see how it performs.

    My Cars:
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
    -1989 Sable LS Wagon (88,710 Miles) - Sold
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (210K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

  10. #10
    I post a lot... knucklehead0202's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Southern Commiefornia
    Posts
    2,233

    Default

    This is why i keep buying '90 california cars, lol. Already MAF-equipped. Before i found out my turbo kit won't fit i had grand plans to run a megasquirt or some such, before finding out i won't pass smog. Now back to N/A 347 with a little more compression and my good-ish heads, cam, intake with a stock a9p. Should run well enough and not cause headaches.

  11. #11
    Fastest Box In South Jersey 86VickyLX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Westmont, New Jersey
    Posts
    10,309

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by knucklehead0202 View Post
    This is why i keep buying '90 california cars, lol. Already MAF-equipped. Before i found out my turbo kit won't fit i had grand plans to run a megasquirt or some such, before finding out i won't pass smog. Now back to N/A 347 with a little more compression and my good-ish heads, cam, intake with a stock a9p. Should run well enough and not cause headaches.
    I want to see if your car will still have cruise control after you do the mass air swap. I have reason to believe the mustang ECU has the capability of running cruise control. Based on the information and pictures that Dave sent me while he was in California.
    "Vicky" 1986 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX ..................................."Blue" 1992 Mercury Grand Marquis LS

    Vicky
    Too much stuff to list in my signature...
    Blue
    Gone! But Parts from it will live on in others!


  12. #12
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Whitestone, NY
    Posts
    18,728

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 86VickyLX View Post
    I want to see if your car will still have cruise control after you do the mass air swap. I have reason to believe the mustang ECU has the capability of running cruise control. Based on the information and pictures that Dave sent me while he was in California.
    What we found was that the MASS Air Equipped box panthers had the cruise wires leading into the ECU.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  13. #13
    351W & F.A.S.T equipped
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Moore, SC
    Posts
    426

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    yes.

    Just be aware that it may not run quite right even with the old style 19# with speed-density. I ran what amounted to an Explorer motor with that ECM and it was bad lean. I had ported E7 heads rather than the GT40, but same cam and intake. I may have been flowing slightly more air than stock GT40 but with a stock lower intake I doubt the difference was significant. Either way I dynoed the thing at around 15:1 at best and at points it was closer to 18:1 air:fuel. It pinged and sucked a lot more gas than it should have. You wouldn't think running lean would burn more fuel, but it was more because of the lack of HP. Converting it to mass air even without any tune work made a huge difference and got me nearly 2 mpg. I'm running more cam and a ported intake now, and I know it makes more power. Fuel economy is actually better with this setup than it was running lean with a lot of stock Explorer parts, mostly because the fuel is actually where it should be.
    Years ago, I had an H.O. swapped Cougar the I put 96 Explorer heads and intake on with SD...it was a turd over 4K rpm, like the RPM hit a wall. That POS was definitely dead lean too. For this combo, just START with a MAF swap and it’ll eliminate so many headaches. You can get reman ECU’s from AutoZone for like $150 and just jam an old Lopo unit in the box for a core.
    '85 CV coupe- 351W, T5-Z, FAST Ez-Efi, shorty headers, 2.5" duals with knock off flowmasters, 2.5" Impala tails, seriously worked GT-40 irons, Comp 265DEH cam, 1.7rr's, Mallory HyFire 6A, Taylor ThunderVolt 50 10.4mm wires, 75mm t/b, 3G alt swap, 140mph PI speedo, PI rear sway bar, '00 PI booster/MC, 95-97 front spindles, '99 front hub bearings/brakes, '92-'94 front upper control arms/ball-joints, 3.73's with rebuilt traction-lok, '09 PI rear disc swap, '96 Mustang GT wheels with 235/55R17's.

  14. #14
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    38,163

    Default

    honestly this is why I never put the P heads on my Mark VII. That, and the engine is well north of 200k and I thought that messing with it might be a stupid idea. Upgrading just the lower intake made a nice difference but I think thats probably the smart practical limit to a speed-density HO motor with 245k on it.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  15. #15
    I post a lot... knucklehead0202's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Southern Commiefornia
    Posts
    2,233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 86VickyLX View Post
    I want to see if your car will still have cruise control after you do the mass air swap. I have reason to believe the mustang ECU has the capability of running cruise control. Based on the information and pictures that Dave sent me while he was in California.
    Curious on this myself but my brother was saying the mustangs run a separate cruise module. Guess we'll see. If it doesn't work then i'm putting a nice Grant wheel on it since mine is starting to look shitty anyway. The thought of losing cruise bothered me until i realized that i drive on the freeway like twice a year and this is California so it's fucking stop-and-go anyway, cruise is almost useless.

  16. #16
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    38,163

    Default

    The Mustangs do use stand-alone cruise. I believe the thinking is since the Cali MAF panthers did not use it, perhaps the control hardware exists in the Mustang ECM as well, even if its not active or connected.

    Curiously early 4.6 cars ran stand-alone cruise, the same module the early boxes did. They have a different part number but it will plug into the old system and work just fine. That cruise control system dates back to the 1970s. I've actually got an old book about new and awesome electronics in cars that was published in 1973 I think, and it has a pretty extensive description of how it all works, circuit diagrams of the module, and the wiring for the system. Not a bad design if it survived essentially untouched from the early 70s through the mid 90s at least.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  17. #17
    Fastest Box In South Jersey 86VickyLX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Westmont, New Jersey
    Posts
    10,309

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    Curiously early 4.6 cars ran stand-alone cruise, the same module the early boxes did.
    The reason for that is, they were running out of drivers inside of the EEC-IV processors as they were preparing to run the AODE, which would require more wiring inputs/outputs.
    "Vicky" 1986 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX ..................................."Blue" 1992 Mercury Grand Marquis LS

    Vicky
    Too much stuff to list in my signature...
    Blue
    Gone! But Parts from it will live on in others!


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
GMN Approved Links!


www.rockauto.com www.adtr.net