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Thread: 1985 Grand Marquis 2-Door

  1. #121
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Save the pennies and get a 4bbl intake with a Holley Sniper to top it with.

    That said... I like the ingenuity and reengineering, but I would rather just have a reliable car. A roller engine with EFI may be more spendy up front, but barring an accident, will probably last a lot longer.

    To each their own. If someone wants to do the odd thing with their car, I'm not one to argue with that. I've done some odd things with mine as well.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
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  2. #122
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87GrandMarq View Post
    For someone who already has a cfi car and put in a built motor, a modified cfi unit would be worth it.
    Until now, a built motor (or even slightly modified) and CFI hasn't really been spoken in the same sentence, as so many have screamed that you can't do shit with CFI. @sluggish91 has pioneered CFI performance, especially considering he's still running the stock ECM.

    Quote Originally Posted by 87GrandMarq View Post
    Itís far more effort to convert over to mpfi. Yes it is superior but, for the most part, itís plug and play. Iím strictly talking about a slightly modified cfi unit to allow more flow for a higher hp motor.
    If CFI plays nice with bigger injectors and playing with some fuel mapping, that's fucking great! But barely anything supports flashing the stock ECM and no aftermarket engine management is plug and play with CFI. Rewiring the system for a different ECU if possible, but the CFI is a bit crude for aftermarket management, mainly only having 2 injectors, poor fuel distribution no knock sensors, no crank or cam sensor and especially no IAC and it's substitute of dashpots and vacuum solenoids that will be a nightmare to control with a non-factory ECM.

    SEFI is better even just stock vs stock, and where it really shines is in tuning, it has more headroom, there's legit plug and play engine management (MSPNP). Even if converting to SEFI is a bunch of work, it is very much worth it especially if you're going to modify it later on.

    I have nothing against CFI or SEFI. It's cool sluggish91 is experimenting and even cooler that he's actually succeeded so far.
    While his CFI plays nice with all sorts of mods, mine is being a total bitch even totally stock. I am so fucking done with the CFI in my own car, and while converting to SEFI would be great, in the arctic wasteland of Finland the conversion is gonna be expensive, and I'd again be stuck with stock. I want mine to just WORK, I want a reliable companion. And I want to keep a big round air cleaner in the middle of my engine bay...
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  3. #123
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arquemann View Post
    ...And I want to keep a big round air cleaner in the middle of my engine bay...
    For whatever reason, that is what I absolutely loved about my old '85 LTD and our Chevy TBI stuff.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  4. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    For whatever reason, that is what I absolutely loved about my old '85 LTD and our Chevy TBI stuff.
    Same here with my CFI. The SEFI stuff just ruins the engine bay look. I considered a carb for mine for when my CFI takes a dump but now Iím leaning more towards a Holley Sniper setup. One could easily support a couple hundred HP with that and keep the round air cleaner


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  5. #125
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matth825 View Post
    I considered a carb for mine for when my CFI takes a dump but now I’m leaning more towards a Holley Sniper setup.
    Oh I would too, but I'm broke asf so I'm going carb. Swapping to a Holley Sniper is a lot more work than a carb swap aswell, but probably well worth it. If I had money laying around, I'd probably go Sniper or even Edel's Pro-Flo 4.

    Carbs are simple and cheap, just what I like. There still are quite a few carb tuning shops in Finland. Also carbs are gonna be around as long as ICEs, so I won't be scrambling for parts in 30 years. I'm betting the current Holley sniper will get outdated and unsupported at some point.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  6. #126
    Member sluggish91's Avatar
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    Glad this sparked a bit of conversation. As far as tuning goes I have a Moates Quarterhorse for my 94 Mustang that I could potentially use on my 85 Grand Marquis. I'm sure some of you on here have heard of Quarterhorse and maybe even used it before. After all, the 85 does work off of EEC-IV and it does have a J3 port, so the hardware itself will definitely work on the factory 85 ECM. Now, finding software that will support the ECM strategy might be tricky. Does anyone here know what strategy (operating system) the 85 EEC-IV ECM works off of? My current ECM had no information on the side like they usually do. The only letters on the entire ECM I could find were: E4LB-14A459-B and underneath that SMB-3B 1Z6 . If I could figure out the strategy I could cross reference which strategy is supported by which software, if any, or I could email Moates and they could lead me in the right direction as to wether or not the Quarterhorse will work with the 85 ECM strategy. Things might get interesting if this is a viable option.

    On another note, I got some motivation to finally install my Tru-Coil Rear Springs that were sitting in my room for a couple months.
    I chose the #200 springs and I couldn't be happier.
    No more looking like I'm hitting lowrider switches when I go over railroad tracks at speed.
    It lowered the rear maybe 1/2in., not too much, but it will settle in a bit.
    The rear of the car feels stiffer between shifts, like it's putting the "power" down a bit more.
    I also *allegedly* tried a little WOT pull in a rural backroad area and *maybe if I really did it* there *would be* no more wheel hop, as I was getting just a bit of hop on the launch.
    All in all a great modification.
    Here are some pictures:
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    1985 2-Door
    CFI, K&N Filter, Edelbrock Performer 289 Intake, E7 Heads, BBK Shorty Headers, Summit H-pipe, Hooker Max Flow Mufflers, E-Fan, 3G Alternator, Race Crank Pulley, Bilstein Rear Shocks, KYB Front Shocks, Front Lowering Springs, FTI 2400 Stall Converter, PA Performance Valve Body, Motive 4.30 Gear, Eaton LSD Differential - I own quite possibly the fastest CFI powered box to the 1/8th mile: 9.95@68.89mph

  7. #127
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    Another route would be to swap in a mustang cfi ecu if yours isnít supported, which I donít see why not. I found this on google. Not much info on the topic but it seems people can make decent power with a tuned cfi setup.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...I-Engine-Build


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  8. #128
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    I think 1Z6 will be the program code.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

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  9. #129

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    Iíve got a spare 85 CFI ECM in my parts stash with all the labels intact. Iíll post some pictures of it when I get home tonight. Iíd love to see a quarter horse working on one.


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  10. #130
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matth825 View Post
    Iíve got a spare 85 CFI ECM in my parts stash with all the labels intact. Iíll post some pictures of it
    Here's what I had in mine, original '85 MGM ECM non-california, I don't think the other side had any print.
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    I wouldn't expect the Mustang CFI ECMs to be so different from panther ECMs that you couldn't tune them the same way.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  11. #131

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    My spare ECM is identical to that. Thanks for posting it! Finally dug mine out today to have a look.


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  12. #132
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    Seeing that the fox and panther ecuís are pinned the same and are interchangeable Iíd bet the cfi fox ecu would be plug and play. In that link I posted it seems that I guess certain sensors have to be rescaled but itís possible to make a cfi ho with a tuned stock panther or fox ecu. Pretty interesting idea since no one does it.


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  13. #133
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    doesn't the ho ecm work best with an HO cam & firing order?
    03 Marauder DBP, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, Blue Fuzzy Dice
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  14. #134
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    Yeah but thatís what Iím talking about. Using the ho cam with a tuned mustang cfi ecu.


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  15. #135
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    I don't think the firing order matters here since its just a pair of injectors. Single O2 sensor too, so there is no concern about left/right bank trims. If there is any difference in the programming I would expect its related to injector size and calculated air flow, which would affect fueling and possibly timing as well. Tune one, tune the other, doesn't really matter if you're changing that stuff anyway.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

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    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  16. #136
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    Didnít even think about that. Good catch.


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  17. #137
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    If the pair are fired at the same time, then yeah... no issues. If they fire individually, then the side to side firing order change may affect it. If the intake manifold is a single plane, it shouldn't be much of an issue, but a dual plane that separates each side will keep fuel from getting to the correct side for the correct firing time. I think the stock stuff is all single plane and the injectors fire together, so it shouldn't be an issue.

    Firing orders vs engine side:
    LoPo
    1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 P-D-P-P-D-P-D-D

    HO
    1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 P-P-D-P-D-D-P-D

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  18. #138
    Member sluggish91's Avatar
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    I got my 52lb injectors in the mail today and swapped them onto my CFI unit.
    Didn't seem to make an immense difference, quite frankly.
    It might be the fact that I also swapped the fuel filter out (something I hadn't done in about 12 months) but the tip in acceleration seems a touch stronger.
    I only drove it around for like 10 minutes when I was done.
    What I did notice was that the 46lb injectors had that single pointy nipple at the end of the injector. It kinda looked like a firing pin.
    The new injectors had 4 small holes and were sort of tucked into the injector body.
    If anyone has ever seen the Jetronic 19lb injectors off of an explorer, the injector ends sorta resembled that.
    I'm just happy that it runs normal!
    I will update with any more events if interesting things happen.
    The ECM was complacent with the injector swap.
    So far.
    I will post pictures soon.
    Thanks for looking and thanks for your interest in my build.
    1985 2-Door
    CFI, K&N Filter, Edelbrock Performer 289 Intake, E7 Heads, BBK Shorty Headers, Summit H-pipe, Hooker Max Flow Mufflers, E-Fan, 3G Alternator, Race Crank Pulley, Bilstein Rear Shocks, KYB Front Shocks, Front Lowering Springs, FTI 2400 Stall Converter, PA Performance Valve Body, Motive 4.30 Gear, Eaton LSD Differential - I own quite possibly the fastest CFI powered box to the 1/8th mile: 9.95@68.89mph

  19. #139
    P31 Pursuit Car Brown_Muscle's Avatar
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    This is one of the most interesting threads im following right now because of the originality of what you're trying to do
    If you get a wideband sensor and gauge I think it would help you with modifications quite a bit, that way you can see exactly how your engine is responding to the modifications your making.
    The more modern 4 hole injectors supposedly atomize the fuel better than the older pintle style ones
    -Phil



    +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. Built 351w, Trickflow 11R 190 Heads, Edelbrock 1906 Carb+ RPM Intake, WR-AOD, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, HPP Steering Box.

    +2003 Acura CL Type S 6-speed

  20. #140
    Member sluggish91's Avatar
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    I've been driving around with these new "52lb. injectors" for the past couple of days and I've come to the conclusion that they are not responding as well as I had initially suspected. Sure, they are delivering a great amount of fuel between idle and 3000rpm, the engine feels real strong, but something is going on past 3000rpm where the engine is just falling flat on its face and shuddering, like it is needing even more fuel. These are just conclusions I've come to based on what I feel the car is doing, I have no legitimate data to back up my theories.
    Maybe it has something to do with the spray pattern on these new injectors and the fact that they are shorter.
    Maybe its the ECM not compensating well over 3000rpm.
    Maybe its the fact that the CFI throttle blades open from front to back and all fuel is getting dumped into the back of the intake manifold.
    Either way, the car runs great if I don't give it the beans.
    It idles perfectly just like it did with the 46lb injectors and accelerates normally throughout each gear, so long as I don't go over 3000rpm.
    I'm going to find the time to put the 46s back on and see what happens.
    My biggest concern from this point forward is the way the throttle blades are opening.
    They are completely biased to the back of the manifold.
    I was getting this crazy idea: what if I tapped two nitrous nozzles into the spacer and used only the fuel jets to fire a dose of fuel into the front portion of the manifold?
    I don't know.
    It is all for the phuck of it anyways.
    I guess I'll see what happens.
    Thanks for your interest in this little project I'm messing with.
    Here are some pictures of the injectors side by side and fitment of the 52lbers in the CFI unit:
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    1985 2-Door
    CFI, K&N Filter, Edelbrock Performer 289 Intake, E7 Heads, BBK Shorty Headers, Summit H-pipe, Hooker Max Flow Mufflers, E-Fan, 3G Alternator, Race Crank Pulley, Bilstein Rear Shocks, KYB Front Shocks, Front Lowering Springs, FTI 2400 Stall Converter, PA Performance Valve Body, Motive 4.30 Gear, Eaton LSD Differential - I own quite possibly the fastest CFI powered box to the 1/8th mile: 9.95@68.89mph

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