Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

'79 351W Revitalisation

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    '79 351W Revitalisation

    Ok, so so the '79 coupe I bought was not in running condition when I bought it, but no big deal. Figured it would just need a tune up, hoses, fluids, carb rebuild, etc in order to get it going again. However, As I explore it more and more, I'm finding everything to be a bit familiar and unfamiliar. So, it has that dreaded VV 2bbl, and there's speculation that the reason it was put aside years ago was due to it needing work that no one at the time was up to handling, so instead it just sat. But as I'm exploring this thing, I'm seeing the carb has a TPS, there are sensors on the EGR, there's a manifold pressure sensor, an O2 sensor, a couple what appear to be electronic vacuum switches, a distributor with no vacuum advance and a label indicating ignition timing is not adjustable, A.I.R. tubes running to rear inner-facing sides of the cylinder heads, what appears to be a coolant pre-heater running to the heater core powered by an exhaust channel... And within all of this damaged vacuum lines and wires caused by mice. Not a lot, but enough to be annoying in certain places.

    Part of what gets me is that as best I can tell there should be a computer module to coordinate the sensors and such. But, all I can see so far is an EEC-II ignition control module. I'm planning on ditching the distributor and carb for an HEI distributor and 2150 2bbl carb for the sake of maintainability and getting it running solidly (know a guy in the local area Panther group that has them on hand). I'm also thinking of chopping out all of the sensors and extraneous vacuum components (the TPS will be tossed with the carb swap). Ultimately this will be beneficial to an upgrade to the heads and for a 4bbl or EFI setup.

    So, with all of this, what do I need to look out for, is there anything important that I might not be taking into consideration? And if this thing is actually an EEC-III system, where's the module? And what problems would I have to look out for in pulling some of these sensors and other bits?

    For the most part in the short terms I'm really just wanting to do what's necessary to get it running again by time the weather warms up next year, and I don't want to be dealing with that VV carb.
    1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
    1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
    1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
    2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

    #2
    Does this look familiar?
    Click image for larger version

Name:	esqford583.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	60.0 KB
ID:	1286219
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

    Comment


      #3
      Yup, that seems pretty close to what I see under the hood. There's a couple elements that I haven't seen, but those are probably not as out in the open as the rest. Based on that, I'm guessing the ECM is in the dash.
      1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
      1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
      1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
      2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

      Comment


        #4
        The MCU should live on the driver's side fender, basically between the Duraspark box and the brake booster, or at least thats where it lives on every 351/VV Panther I've ever seen.

        The distributor is just a standard Duraspark unit. Ignition is Duraspark III, which is just D2 with an extra pair of wires to allow timing retard from a knock sensor. If you jumper them, its a Duraspark 2 box. No need for heretical GM distributors, the old Dspark works quite fine. Swap the VV for a Motorshaft 2150 and you're good to go.

        Don't chop the sensors, just remove them and the wiring harness in one big complete chunk. Its a much neater job than having a bunch of stuff sliced and diced under the hood.

        you might want to get in touch with Brown_Muscle. He's got an 82 Vic that used to have all that stuff, and he's largely gone down this path (and beyond now) so he's probably got more specific details on the process.
        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

        Originally posted by phayzer5
        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

        Comment


          #5
          From your description, that mess ain’t no carburetor. The VV didn’t have a TPS, no sensor on the EGR, no manifold pressure sensor that I am aware of, and it DID use a vacuum advance on the distributor. This is from my 82 recollections that might be fuzzy since I sold it in 2008

          It did use an O2. Seems like it was only one on the right side.

          MCU visible on driver fender well:


          The VV:


          MCU out of car:


          Don’t over estimate the MCU. My car ran just fine without it.

          The 79 351W had a tractor cam in it. Peak torque @ 1400rpm. No lie.
          Last edited by Tiggie; 11-20-2019, 10:40 PM.
          1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
          1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

          GMN Box Panther History
          Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
          Box Panther Production Numbers

          Comment


            #6
            maybe we need some pics ?
            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

            Originally posted by phayzer5
            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Tiggie View Post
              From your description, that mess ain’t no carburetor. The VV didn’t have a TPS, no sensor on the EGR, no manifold pressure sensor that I am aware of, and it DID use a vacuum advance on the distributor. This is from my 82 recollections that might be fuzzy since I sold it in 2008

              It did use an O2. Seems like it was only one on the right side.

              MCU visible on driver fender well:


              The VV:


              MCU out of car:


              Don’t over estimate the MCU. My car ran just fine without it.

              The 79 351W had a tractor cam in it. Peak torque @ 1400rpm. No lie.
              From my understanding there were two versions of the VV implementation. One which was a lot like what you're describing, and another which seems to me to be a precursor to CFI. They had different carb part numbers but for the life of me those numbers escape me at the moment. Maybe 2700 and 9900? I dunno.
              1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
              1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
              1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
              2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

              Comment


                #8
                Got some photos...

                First photo is the distributor. Nice little box on it.

                Second photo has some sort of electronic component attached to the driver side of the carb. That diagram up above says it may be some kind of actuator.

                Third photo shows a sensor on the passenger side of the carb. There's another below it, you can see the wires below the electric choke.

                Fourth one shows some switched vacuum and that actuator on the carb. One of the vacuum lines on that switch runs to the EGR.

                Fifth photo shows another vacuum switch set and a manifold vacuum sensor.

                Sixth photo shows a sensor attached to the EGR.

                Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
                1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
                1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
                1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
                2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

                Comment


                  #9
                  And looking in the back on the driver side... Is this the ECM?

                  Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
                  1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
                  1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
                  1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
                  2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Ledzilla what you have is a expencive feedback VV carburetor Holly used to make the replacement carburetor, my dad bought a car with the VV had it rebuilt and he could never get the car to run right until he got the Holly replacement. My advice is get the replacement Carburetor and you are good to go.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      All Panther VV’s were the 7200 - the computer controlled one. The non computer one was indeed the 2700 but never used in a Panther.

                      I think you have a Cali emissions car. Just a guess.
                      Last edited by Tiggie; 11-21-2019, 10:23 PM.
                      1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
                      1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

                      GMN Box Panther History
                      Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
                      Box Panther Production Numbers

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Rodentkiller View Post
                        Ledzilla what you have is a expencive feedback VV carburetor Holly used to make the replacement carburetor, my dad bought a car with the VV had it rebuilt and he could never get the car to run right until he got the Holly replacement. My advice is get the replacement Carburetor and you are good to go.
                        That would appear to be the Holley 2300 1-684. Can't seem to find any available.
                        Last edited by ledzilla; 11-21-2019, 10:44 PM.
                        1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
                        1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
                        1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
                        2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Tiggie View Post
                          All Panther VV’s were the 7200 - the computer controlled one. The non computer one was indeed the 2700 but never used in a Panther.

                          I think you have a Cali emissions car. Just a guess.
                          Well, if it's a Cali emissions, it wouldn't be the first for me. My 88 TC had it. I looked into new injectors for it, once upon a time, and the Ford parts guy told me that they were Cali emissions injectors.
                          1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
                          1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
                          1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
                          2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Ok, given the fact that the direct replacement non-VV Holley carb doesn't seem to be available right now, would it seem reasonable that I could install a 2150 2bbl and a DuraSpark II distributor, and assuming that the carb is tuned properly and the correct ignition timing is set, I should be able to get this beastie up and running regardless of the sensors and the EEC-III ECM? It already looks to be using the same ICM that my 78 LTD and 87 F250 are using (all are non CA emissions style - 2 plugs instead of 3).
                            1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
                            1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
                            1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
                            2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

                            Comment


                              #15
                              should be able to do that. If its got spark and fuel it will run. The rest of it is just extra BS.
                              86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                              5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                              91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                              1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                              Originally posted by phayzer5
                              I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X