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Thread: Cammershaft suggestions

  1. #1

    Default Cammershaft suggestions

    1988 Colony park, rebuilt truck 302, gt40p heads with tfs1 springs, xpipe, T5 trans with 3.73 rear. This is going to be a daily driver, not a track/strip car.

    Im looking for a cam that has decent power in the low to mid range, and one that will cure my itch whenever I play leadfoot larry. So far Ive been told that the e303 is the cam id want. Anyone run these cams before, or would you guys suggest otherwise.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
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    Are you still running fuel injection or is it carbureted? I only ask since if it’s still factory LoPo PCM controlled it probably won’t play nice with speed density, and you’d want to check the firing order. If that cam uses the HO firing order, you might be able to get it going with a Mass Air PCM from a Mustang.

    My Cars:
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
    -1989 Sable LS Wagon (88,710 Miles) - Sold
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  3. #3
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    pretty happy with the Comp XE258 in mine.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  4. #4
    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
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    I did a little scalping around here and some other forums on the E303 to update my original post. If you're staying SEFI, you're gonna need an HO PCM, since apparently the alphabet cams use the 302 HO firing order. It also seems they're not kind to speed density systems, so a MAF conversion would likely be necessary to get it going good.

    Beyond that info, I really don't have anything useful on camshafts. Still got the stock stick in mine, and I've got a HO one waiting to go in. Personally I'd find one that would play nice with an HO PCM if you're DD'ing the car. That way you're not having to make any dramatic changes to fuel delivery and intake. That said, you'll need to go up to the 19# injectors if you're still running the 14# ones currently when you do the swap. Are you still also using the stock upper intake and throttle body?

    My Cars:
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
    -1989 Sable LS Wagon (88,710 Miles) - Sold
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (210K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodachrome Wolf View Post
    I did a little scalping around here and some other forums on the E303 to update my original post. If you're staying SEFI, you're gonna need an HO PCM, since apparently the alphabet cams use the 302 HO firing order. It also seems they're not kind to speed density systems, so a MAF conversion would likely be necessary to get it going good.

    Beyond that info, I really don't have anything useful on camshafts. Still got the stock stick in mine, and I've got a HO one waiting to go in. Personally I'd find one that would play nice with an HO PCM if you're DD'ing the car. That way you're not having to make any dramatic changes to fuel delivery and intake. That said, you'll need to go up to the 19# injectors if you're still running the 14# ones currently when you do the swap. Are you still also using the stock upper intake and throttle body?
    Itll be carbureted with dual plane intake. I scrapped the old motor and ecu/harness as they both needed -alot- of work to get it within an acceptable condition. Whoever had this before me tortured this thing with sloppy ass splicing and somehow got a fucking plug tip stamped into piston 4. How it ran and lasted as long as it did is beyond me.

  6. #6
    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongDongJohnson View Post
    Itll be carbureted with dual plane intake. I scrapped the old motor and ecu/harness as they both needed -alot- of work to get it within an acceptable condition. Whoever had this before me tortured this thing with sloppy ass splicing and somehow got a fucking plug tip stamped into piston 4. How it ran and lasted as long as it did is beyond me.
    Ah, okay. Given the short mods list, I was thinking it was still setup around a SEFI LoPo configuration. Carry on.

    My Cars:
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
    -1989 Sable LS Wagon (88,710 Miles) - Sold
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (210K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

  7. #7
    Member sluggish91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongDongJohnson View Post
    1988 Colony park, rebuilt truck 302, gt40p heads with tfs1 springs, xpipe, T5 trans with 3.73 rear. This is going to be a daily driver, not a track/strip car.

    Im looking for a cam that has decent power in the low to mid range, and one that will cure my itch whenever I play leadfoot larry. So far Ive been told that the e303 is the cam id want. Anyone run these cams before, or would you guys suggest otherwise.

    Thanks
    I recommend using a Stock Mustang Cam with Cobra 1.7 Rockers for what you're looking to do with your car. This will provide better around town drivability because of the 115 lobe separation angle, compared to the 110 of the e303. Also, the RPM operation range of the e-303 is advertised to be 2,500-6,500 RPM, whereas the stock cam is idle-4800 RPM (with e7 heads, and would increase with better cylinder heads, which you have). You'll have a lot more useable RPM from light to light with the Stock Cam/1.7 combo as opposed to the e303. Stock Mustang cam is a good cam. OEM Ford parts are better than people give them credit.

    Just for solidarity (in a 88 Foxbody Mustang) I've gone a best of 8.1 @ 87.99 in the 1/8th mile, driven 80 miles to the track, sprayed 100 dry shot a couple times, driven home, no issues. Daily driven from 2011-2017 (my Marquis is now my daily) in the following configuration:
    stock cam w/ 1.7 rockers
    e7 heads
    edelbrock rpm intake
    shorty equal length headers
    x-pipe
    t-5z

    I'm now throwing a 70mm turbo on this engine. Guess what cam i'll be using?
    1985 2-Door
    CFI, K&N Filter, 1.6 Roller Rockers, BBK Shorty Headers, Summit H-pipe, Hooker Max Flow Mufflers,
    Flex-A-Lite Electric Fan, 3G Alternator, Race Crank Pulley, Bilstein Rear Shocks, SVE Wheels, ET Streets, 3.55 Gear

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by sluggish91 View Post
    I recommend using a Stock Mustang Cam with Cobra 1.7 Rockers for what you're looking to do with your car. This will provide better around town drivability because of the 115 lobe separation angle, compared to the 110 of the e303. Also, the RPM operation range of the e-303 is advertised to be 2,500-6,500 RPM, whereas the stock cam is idle-4800 RPM (with e7 heads, and would increase with better cylinder heads, which you have). You'll have a lot more useable RPM from light to light with the Stock Cam/1.7 combo as opposed to the e303. Stock Mustang cam is a good cam. OEM Ford parts are better than people give them credit.

    Just for solidarity (in a 88 Foxbody Mustang) I've gone a best of 8.1 @ 87.99 in the 1/8th mile, driven 80 miles to the track, sprayed 100 dry shot a couple times, driven home, no issues. Daily driven from 2011-2017 (my Marquis is now my daily) in the following configuration:
    stock cam w/ 1.7 rockers
    e7 heads
    edelbrock rpm intake
    shorty equal length headers
    x-pipe
    t-5z

    I'm now throwing a 70mm turbo on this engine. Guess what cam i'll be using?
    I assume the same stick lol

    Thanks that makes things much easier to deal with, and will be much cheaper.

  9. #9
    Member sluggish91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongDongJohnson View Post
    I assume the same stick lol
    Yes.

    There is plenty documentation of people hitting 400+ horsepower and dipping into the 10's in the 1/4 with a Stock Mustang Cam.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    pretty happy with the Comp XE258 in mine.
    The COMP XE258 35-510-8 is also a good choice. This off the shelf cam has the recipe to be a great performing camshaft on the street. With its low 258/266 duration and high 0.533/0.544 lift, it will provide fantastic low and mid range torque. The 112 lobe separation angle will give a more defined sound. Piston to Valve clearance with this cam with be much tighter than the e303 and the stock mustang cam.
    1985 2-Door
    CFI, K&N Filter, 1.6 Roller Rockers, BBK Shorty Headers, Summit H-pipe, Hooker Max Flow Mufflers,
    Flex-A-Lite Electric Fan, 3G Alternator, Race Crank Pulley, Bilstein Rear Shocks, SVE Wheels, ET Streets, 3.55 Gear

  10. #10
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    The HO cam honestly sucks in a heavy car, especially if you don't mate it with a looser converter and/or much lower rear gears. Consider the weight difference involved here. They're fine with a 3.73 rear but pretty garbage with a 3.08.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    The HO cam honestly sucks in a heavy car, especially if you don't mate it with a looser converter and/or much lower rear gears. Consider the weight difference involved here. They're fine with a 3.73 rear but pretty garbage with a 3.08.
    No matter which cam I get, the rear will be geared to a 3.73 posi

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by sluggish91 View Post
    Yes.

    There is plenty documentation of people hitting 400+ horsepower and dipping into the 10's in the 1/4 with a Stock Mustang Cam.



    The COMP XE258 35-510-8 is also a good choice. This off the shelf cam has the recipe to be a great performing camshaft on the street. With its low 258/266 duration and high 0.533/0.544 lift, it will provide fantastic low and mid range torque. The 112 lobe separation angle will give a more defined sound. Piston to Valve clearance with this cam with be much tighter than the e303 and the stock mustang cam.
    What should the ptv clearances be, in the 120 thousandths? And I assume this will bump overall compression up with stock truck pistons?

  13. #13
    I post a lot... knucklehead0202's Avatar
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    I've got a Holley systemax cam i could set you up with for cheap. It's a tad better than an E-cam and again, cheap. Not sure if it's the systemax I or II but the specs are pretty close on them.

    The crane 2030 going in my 347 is similar to that Comp xe-258. Same everything with a tad more duration. Hoping it's a good combo with the stroker and small head i'm using. Looking for good torque and strong pull to around 6k. We'll see.
    Last edited by knucklehead0202; 01-20-2020 at 10:00 AM.

  14. #14
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    I never actually measured it. I did the old poke and hope procedure. 1.7 Scorpion rockers because the old Crane ones were whipped and I had them on hand. Stuck the cam in, determined I needed longer pushrods. Put the proper ones in and stuck the valve covers on. I honestly did not know if the valves were going to kiss the pistons, or if the rockers were going to clear the covers. I figured I'd just bar it over by hand and see if anything went poorly and deal with it at that point. Nothing bound up or gave me indications of trouble. At that point I basically just crossed my fingers and started it. Been like that for several years now. Runs fine, doesn't make any funny noises.

    the HO type pistons have valve reliefs, which add a lot of peace of mind and room for stupidity. I've had the timing chain fall off the car and it suffered no damage to the valves or pistons. Not so much to the lifters and eventually not to the cam but thats a different matter. Lopos will smash valves if you lose a chain even with a dead stock cam. Explorer pistons have the reliefs too. I have no idea what the truck pistons are like.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  15. #15

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    Its probably a good chance they're flats, since both trucks and grand marqs used bank injection in the late 80s. Ill find out once I tear the heads off lol. That comp cam really seems like the one im after, thanks for tossing in the board.

  16. #16
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    the cars never ran bank injection. It was always sequential after they went off CFI.

    for some reason I'm thinking the trucks had a big oval dish. The cars had a basically flat piston with a small round dish in the center.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  17. #17
    Told ya everything I know when I said hello P72Ford's Avatar
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    Alphabet cams are generally thought to be antiquated; but there are still a lot of people that go fast with them. I think they are okay for performance, but shorter on drivability than more modern grinds.

    If you are going to run anything other than stock, I'd highly suggest just checking PTV clearance. It is easy to do, and you presumably have the heads off anyway.

    Being that you are using a standard and deeper gears, it will be more resilient to street driving with a rowdy idle if you're inclined to go that way.
    **2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302: 5.0, 6 spd, 3.73s; 17K miles Cruiser
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  18. #18

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    Would I have to burn the chip if I went with the xe258 cam? If by an off chance I found a partout truck that has the maf eec-iv, then I might just order an a9l computer and go with that instead of carbing it out.

  19. #19
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Not sure about the MAF trucks, but the speed-density ones were batch fire rather than sequential. Don't think those parts are going to do you much good.


    I ran my XE-258 un-tuned for a while and it ran OK on a stock A9T. A9T is the computer from a Mustang SSP, only difference from an A9L that we could determine is a little bit more timing. Probably why I've never been able to advance the timing beyond the stock 10 BTDC. It runs better now, but it had no drivability problems or anything else that was forcing me to get it tuned. Power is better now and the fuel economy is up about 1.5 mpg though.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    Not sure about the MAF trucks, but the speed-density ones were batch fire rather than sequential. Don't think those parts are going to do you much good.


    I ran my XE-258 un-tuned for a while and it ran OK on a stock A9T. A9T is the computer from a Mustang SSP, only difference from an A9L that we could determine is a little bit more timing. Probably why I've never been able to advance the timing beyond the stock 10 BTDC. It runs better now, but it had no drivability problems or anything else that was forcing me to get it tuned. Power is better now and the fuel economy is up about 1.5 mpg though.
    Huh, didn't think the wiring would make that much of a difference if another computer was going to be hooked up. Damn, Im probably going to have to find another grand marq and use the harness out of that and convert it to maf. Are you using the 9l?

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