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Thread: SN95 Rear Brakes?

  1. #1

    Default SN95 Rear Brakes?

    So, I am at work, unencumbered by reality or common sense.
    At home, I have a 1999 Mustang parts car. The rear axle and brakes are not needed for my Fox project, as that has Cobra parts on it.
    The Box Panthers had an 8.8 with drums.
    The Fox Mustangs had an 8.8 with drums (or a 7.5 but please hear my bad ideas before you object to my reasoning).
    The SN95 uses the same width housing, and axles which are about 3/4" longer than the Fox to make room for the disc setup.
    The 92+ Panthers used (I think) the same width housing, and axles which are about 3/4" longer than the Box to make room for the disc setup.
    I can score cheap axle shafts, and I'm already planning to rebuild my rear axle/swap to 3.55s.
    I have the parts to adapt the SN95 brakes to a Fox 8.8 housing.

    Has anyone tried this? In conjunction with a big brake swap up front, of course. But I'm doing that the Panther way, because my Cobra brakes have a Fox home.

    I'm fairly sure it's mechanically possible, at least to a point. But how stupid is it, has anyone here tried it and what were the results?
    If I had to buy the parts, I'd go Panther rear too. I'm crazy, not insane.

  2. #2
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    you'd need to know the spacing between the back side of the axle flange and the outside edge of the diff housing itself. If you can get an axle shaft that gives the same spacing on the Panther as the SN95, I don't really see why those brakes wouldn't fit. Assuming the flange pattern on the diff housing is the same at least.

    The valving might be an issue. Might want to check the piston size for both Panther calipers and SN95 to compare. If the SN95 pistons are bigger you might have to diddle the proportioning to keep the back end from locking up.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  3. #3

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    So SN95 rear calipers (V6, V8, Cobra) are 38mm piston; CV are 48mm.

    I've got a manual proportioning valve in my parts bin, and a couple different master cylinders (and a hydroboost setup if I really want to get nuts with it...).

    As is often the case, free stuff can cost the most. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for a local mid-90s Crown Vic rear, rebuild it on the bench, and drop it into the car without tying up a borrowed lift any longer than I have to.
    I'm reasonably sure I could use the existing e-brake cables, and I'd have to pull my axle shafts to change my rear gears anyway, so it could be a pretty simple swap.

    But, it gives me a 10" solid rotor instead of the 11" (solid still) on the stock CV, it gives me a disk parking brake (which are notoriously fickle when wet, like launching a boat), and upgrading to an 11" Cobra setup (with the same calipers and parking brakes) is another couple hundred bucks. And i might have to fiddle with parking brake cables either way, but I'll be able to pick the right cables up with a used CV axle, instead of figuring out a Mustang-Crown Vic hybrid.

    If this wasn't my daily driver, if it was my own darn garage, and if I wasn't planning on towing, I think the swap would work; especially for someone drifting or racing who wants to either save weight, or mount a drifting-style SN95 dual-rear-caliper setup. The SN95 setup looks to save a bunch of weight over the Panther; but I'd save more weight by taking my tool box out of the trunk.
    Either way, my drums work for now and changing to larger front brakes will be better bang for the buck, even if the drums aren't as pretty under a 17" 'Stang wheel.

    The SN95 setup will be measured and checked for fun when I have it out, and then put into cold storage in my Volvo project (...or maybe it will become PART of the Volvo project?)

  4. #4
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    not sure what year your car is, but the disc Vic rears are a little wider overall. Not a bad thing. It fills out the wheel well a bit and looks a little nicer. Slightly regret not going that route on my car vs rebuilding and converting the original rear but not enough to mess with it. I did keep my factory 3.55 limited slip though. That was part of the choice, original gears in original housing doesn't need any shim changes.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  5. #5

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    Mine is an '86. The disc Vics are 3/4" longer axle shafts than the drum Vics. Likewise, the disc Mustangs are 3/4" longer axle shafts than the drum Mustangs. I can get a pair of Aero axle shafts for about 100 bucks. Then again, I can probably get a complete disc axle for around that, and do my crazy SN95 R&D on an old axle that can go away when I'm done playing.
    The Box Vic shafts are listed at about 31", the 1992-1997 are listed at about 31 3/4", and the 1998-2002 are about 32 1/2"
    The Fox Mustang shafts are listed as 29 1/4", the 1994-1998 are 30", and 1999+ SN95 axle shafts are 30 3/4".

    Of course, I read all this on the internet, so anyone with a tape measure can can do better than that.
    But Ford is well known for raiding parts bins, and the changes are in similar year ranges by similar amounts...so I expect there's some design similarities in how all these pieces are arranged. I really wonder if the caliper brackets for the Mustang and 90s Vics are close enough to allow use of the Mustang caliper in the Vic bracket, and maybe find a 48mm caliper with parking brake mechanism...and here I go again :P

    Edit: How about a REALLY similar looking 2001 Taurus caliper with a 43mm piston?
    Last edited by bgreywolf; 02-29-2020 at 11:28 AM.

  6. #6
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    ok, think it was 1990 the housings got wider on the boxes. You have the same narrow rear I have. My axles are original 1986 with the rear discs. I'd be slightly concerned with 3/4" longer axles in the 86 housing. Not sure if you'd still have the bearing riding on the polished, hard section meant for it. Also just the overhang of the wheel beyond the bearing makes me think it would be weaker. I've never done the math but I strongly suspect in stock form the centerline of the wheel matches with the centerline of the bearing. Shoving that outward 3/4" would make the wheel overhang the bearing and put a lot of stress on the axle shaft. Its not exactly the most robust thing to begin with.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  7. #7

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    The Fox-to-early-SN95 change involved adding the 3/4" to the flange end of the axle, so there was space to add the brackets. There are offset brackets for the Fox cars to carry the brakes (made by North Racecars, among others) but those cost money so I haven't played with them. The axle housing is the same width from 79 Mustang 7.5" rear, to 1998 Mustang Cobra 8.8 (with some exceptions, but not a lot). The shafts are the same length 79-98, again with some exceptions.

    So, my completely unconfirmed suspicion is that the axle housing up until 97 is the same width, with the extra length being made up by the axle shaft, like on the Foxes?

    In both cases, I believe Ford changed the wheel offset slightly when they made the changes but I'm not sure.

    I agree that it's best to center the wheel with the bearing, but I'll also point out there's a jillion cars running wider rims and tires and the question people ask is "what clears the fenders", not "what fits without snapping the axles and destroying suspension", so Ford built a little extra strength into the bearing/shaft interface. I usually see these snapped at the splines from too much torque/too big a wheel on the truck/etc; I've replaced more axle shafts and bearings due to axle failures at the spline end, anyway.

    Edit: I'd also feel more warm and fuzzy about a longer factory axle (assuming it's installed properly and running on the correct bearing surface) than I would about a 3/4" spacer to adjust my wheel offset.
    Once again, if I can find a mid-90s axle, complete, I can confirm these things and also get my disc brakes without having to worry if it fits.
    Last edited by bgreywolf; 03-01-2020 at 01:42 AM.

  8. #8
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    The flange to flange width is about an inch and a bit wider starting around 1990. The axle shaft is longer to go with the longer tube. Wheel offsets did not change through 2002 as far as I'm aware but I won't claim to have done an in-depth study of this.

    The axles on these cars fail at the bearing. Just a "feature" of the 8.8 design where it uses the axle shaft as the inner bearing surface. Eventually the case hardening gives up and the warm and gooey center of the axle fails. Almost none of us are making enough power for it to fail at the spline. I've experienced this failure myself. Not from wheel offset problems, just from use/miles. The rear rotor will keep the wheel under the car for you, so thats a bonus. Drums will not.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  9. #9

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    Hmm. I'm not used to losing axles at the flange end.
    The Box panthers are only about 400 pounds heavier than my 1999 Mustang convertible was, but I guess they tend to get heavier loads in the back than the Mustangs do.
    I'll have to inspect the bearing surface of the axle. Unlike the Mustang, 31-spline axles wouldn't fix that (aside from being new)...and the longest SN95 axles are still 1/4" too short to swap into my LTD.

  10. #10
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    2 tons and 150 horsepower. The engine just ain't gonna overwhelm the axles but the weight will.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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