PotM GrandMarq.NET - Panther Headquarters Forum Index PotM
GMN Chat Room GMN's STORE!! GMN's Gallery Please!!
Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 149

Thread: Finally Got the Work Started on the '79

  1. #1

    Default Finally Got the Work Started on the '79

    With the nice weekend weather around the Chicago area lately, started spending some time getting the 351W worked on. I've been finding that this thing probably sat longer than I was previously led to believe. Potentially a lot longer.

    After a few hours of struggling I managed to finally pull out the long alternator bolt. Between using a MAPP torch, two different air impact wrenches, and vise grips I was able to get that bolt removed. Also had to pull the radiator out in order to remove the bolt. Discovered that one of the hose inlets was damaged. I'll probably need to bring the radiator over to a shop for some attention, especially given that damage. Sure as hell not buying an aftermarket radiator if I can avoid it, based on recent experience.

    Also got the water pump and thermostat/housing removed. Not liking what I saw there. A bunch of powdery dehydrated coolant left behind and a rusty thermostat. Fortunately I already grabbed a new housing, gasket, and thermostat, so that's no biggie. The water pump seems to rotate pretty well with no resistance or noises, but I'm likely going to replace it anyway. A Ford Racing pump with a 1.5" shorter pulley shaft was suggested. I'm giving it consideration, but I still have to measure the current pulley so I can search for a proper custom replacement, since the belt won't line up if I use the original pulley. Also going to need to do a good series of flushes at some point. Long before I can install a new pump, though, have to do some bolt extraction. One of the studs snapped off into the timing cover. So that's going to be fun once I get some left-handed drill bits and some extractors.

    I'm also making progress in removing the old electronics from the engine, and some of the emissions stuff so I can actually reach the spark plugs in order to get a tune-up done. I need to finish up with the new fuel pump so I can test fit fuel hose to the new carburetor since the fuel inlets aren't quite in the same spot. Not sure what I'm going to do about the EGR valve. I can't find a replacement in its style (only see the same type as my LTD uses which bolts onto a spacer plate, not to the manifold with a sensor fitting and tube from the exhaust manifold).

    I've added a some photos from my escapades so far.













    Last edited by ledzilla; 03-02-2020 at 03:20 PM. Reason: image layout
    1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
    1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
    1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
    2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

  2. #2
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Whitestone, NY
    Posts
    19,291

    Default

    You will get that broken bolt out easily. Believe that hole goes through to the other side of the timing cover even. Can get some penetrant in there too. A bit of heat and your extractor of choice.

    Much much worse areas to try an extract a bolt from.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 87gtVIC View Post
    You will get that broken bolt out easily. Believe that hole goes through to the other side of the timing cover even. Can get some penetrant in there too. A bit of heat and your extractor of choice.

    Much much worse areas to try an extract a bolt from.
    Yeah, I'm no stranger to snapped bolts, but I was actually quite surprised that it was rusted through. Haven't encountered that one before. I'm thinking before I start putting new parts on that I'll get a full new set of water pump bolts/studs instead of just the stud that broke. I've already doused that sucker in Deep Creep a couple times.

  4. #4
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Bedford, VA
    Posts
    5,791

    Default

    What’s the reason for the shorter water pump? I’d personally stick to stock replacement for belt alignment. Even a small amount of belt misalignment will cause headaches.

    On the EGR, can you run one of the regular style and block off the existing exhaust tube.

    Definitely feels good to make progress even if it doesn’t go smooth all the time.

  5. #5

    Default Finally Got the Work Started on the '79

    Iíd pull the timing cover and replace the chain with a nice double roller since you are right there. You can also get a ford racing universal small block timing cover if you donít want to mess with the bolt. I put one on mine when I did the chain because half the bolts snapped and I didnít feel like fighting them.

    Totally stainless makes a very nice set of stud bolts for the cover and water pump. They have a long lead time but are worth the wait.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    39,520

    Default

    you definitely want a stock water pump to have any hope of the belts sitting properly. The fancy one is probably for a Mustang, which has a different accessory setup. Pump also spins the wrong way, so that won't do you any favors.

    good point on the timing chain too. Yours is quite likely the craptastic plastic cam gear type.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  7. #7

    Default

    The choice of water pump was due to my indicating I wanted a good, high quality pump, and it was recommended since it's a Ford part. I see plenty of pumps that will be an exact fit, but either I know the brands to be crap or they're completely unfamiliar. It seems like I should be able to get a decent pump for $150 or less. I'd assume Edelbrock makes a quality part, but no way I'm spending that kind of money right now. Anyway, the recommended pump wasn't really fancy. It was stock rotation, stock flow, stock inlet/outlet positioning, just a shorter shaft by 1.5". Seems like maybe it was for a Mustang, but it was indicated for better radiator clearance or something. Here's what was suggested:
    https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-8501-E351S

    Is this the timing cover being referenced?
    https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6059-D351
    If so, I see it for $139 on Summit.

    And if going that route, seems like maybe this is a good choice on a double roller timing set?
    https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6268-A302
    Summit has it for $132.

    I was checking out the offerings from Totally Stainless. I'm guessing I'd want one of the Engine Kit sets with the driver side inlet. Just not certain as to whether or not to grab a "cast" or the "sheet metal" valve cover set. I'd not likely use an entire set at this time, since I'm mostly just trying to refresh the engine and get it running again. Although it might be worthwhile to pull the valve covers, get them powder coated.

    With the EGR, not sure I can bolt a regular one to it. I think I'll need to post a photo of it when I get an opportunity. The tube runs from the front of the passenger side manifold, over the intake, and to the EGR mounted towards the rear of the intake. The tube also interfaces with the heater hoses, which is weird to me but looks like a clever way of getting cabin heat faster. When I try to look up replacement EGR valves, they all look more like what I have in my '78 LTD with the 351M where the gas enters and exits from the same side with no orifice for exhaust gas intake in a different spot than the outlet. What I can find I don't think will properly mount, given the EGR seems to mount directly to the intake manifold instead of to an EGR spacer plate under the carb. Oddly enough I was able to find a replacement EGR position sensor, but not the matching valve, or a likely block off. I don't even want to try to remove that thing right now unless I can find direct fit parts, otherwise I may end up with an exhaust leak.

  8. #8

    Default

    The timing cover you linked to is the correct one.

    The ford timing set is nice but itís probably overkill for a stock engine. I picked up a Cloyes 9-1138 street true double roller set for 34ish bucks from rock auto. Quality seemed decent.

    For the stud bolts youíll need to order the mustang kit. It comes with 1 long, 2 medium and 2 short stud bolts. Youíll need to order one additional medium length one since the accessory bracket configuration on the panthers is different. I want to say it cost me right around 100 bucks. I had one oddball stud bolt that was 2 7/8 inches long on the 5/16th threaded side but the stud portion wasnít being used by an accessory bracket so I just picked up a regular stainless bolt from the hardware store. I think itís the 87-91 panthers that need an actual stud bolt in that location.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    39,520

    Default

    I think thats the timing set I have on both of mine. Cloyes and double roller, not stupid price.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    I think thats the timing set I have on both of mine. Cloyes and double roller, not stupid price.
    Itís definitely a good set at a reasonable cost. I looked at the Ford one but couldnít justify the price.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    39,520

    Default

    interesting anecdode. Some years ago when I had the timing set fall off the car I considered swapping it just in case I had damaged it. On hand was a 0 mile take-off set from an Explorer 5.0, or a new single row from the parts store, or the 15k mile double roller chain that had fallen off because I didn't torque the bolt properly. The used one had less slack in it than either of the never used parts, so it went back on. It was still in good shape years later when I replaced the cam, so it went back on again.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  12. #12

    Default

    Ok, yeah, I'm on board with Cloyes. I bought some Cloyes timing parts for the Marauder, just need to get a new radiator for it before I get working.

    Finally got a photo of the EGR valve and attached it. This thing really doesn't match any valves I see for sale anywhere. But, now that I have a part number...

    I'll take a look at the sets mentioned for the bolts. I guess I'll have to search the page for "Mustang" because that site has a terrible layout.

    As for water pumps, any recommendations for a high quality pump at a reasonable price? Definitely avoiding anything made by Cardone or Dorman. That's all junk. I see plenty of pumps available through brands like Edelbrock and CVF Racing, but if I can avoid spending $150 on a reliable pump, I would.

    Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
    1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
    1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
    1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
    2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

  13. #13
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    39,520

    Default

    I think the pump on my car now is a new production one from Advance or something, like 6 years ago. I know I've had it off twice for unrelated problems and put it back on because it works correctly. Thats pump #5 on this car I think. I went through 4 pumps in about 40k miles. Now that I have a good one I'm sort of scared to replace it unless I have to.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  14. #14

    Default

    Well, I did check up on Advance... And one of the two near me has one in stock for $47. I guess it can't hurt too much to give it a whirl.

    I figure also while I have it all apart, I ought to replace the balancer. I keep seeing "for non-EEC engines" in the descriptions. I figure it means it doesn't have the ring on it for the crank position sensor like mine has, and will no longer be needing by time I'm done. Not really sure what the difference is between all of the options out there since I have yet to even remove a balancer. The pullies need some TLC, though. They're a little crusty. Is it worth it to have them sent off to a powder coating company for sandblasting and powder coating? I'll be heading to one anyway for some wheels I bought for my '78 LTD.

    While trying to straighten up the extraneous wiring for all the EEC stuff, I found a wire where I cannot determine its endpoint. It runs from the harness along the firewall down the back of the engine close to the O2 sensor, but goes elsewhere. I can't see back there to find where it runs. Anyone have an idea what it might be for? If it's only for EEC stuff, then I'd like to disconnect it so that I can bundle that section of wires together neatly and out of the way. If it isn't, it will certainly complicate the cleanup effort.

    Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
    1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
    1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
    1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
    2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    interesting anecdode. Some years ago when I had the timing set fall off the car I considered swapping it just in case I had damaged it. On hand was a 0 mile take-off set from an Explorer 5.0, or a new single row from the parts store, or the 15k mile double roller chain that had fallen off because I didn't torque the bolt properly. The used one had less slack in it than either of the never used parts, so it went back on. It was still in good shape years later when I replaced the cam, so it went back on again.
    Think maybe there was a slight design difference for that year of 5.0?

    Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
    1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
    1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
    1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
    2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by matth825 View Post
    For the stud bolts youíll need to order the mustang kit. It comes with 1 long, 2 medium and 2 short stud bolts. Youíll need to order one additional medium length one since the accessory bracket configuration on the panthers is different. I want to say it cost me right around 100 bucks. I had one oddball stud bolt that was 2 7/8 inches long on the 5/16th threaded side but the stud portion wasnít being used by an accessory bracket so I just picked up a regular stainless bolt from the hardware store. I think itís the 87-91 panthers that need an actual stud bolt in that location.
    Think you could help point me to the correct kits? Totally Stainless has not made it easy to find what you want on their site. No decent filtering or anything. There's another site built like theirs where I bought some new bolts and such for the DOHC in my Marauder, and that layout was pretty painful, too.

    Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
    1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
    1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
    1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
    2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

  17. #17

    Default

    Their website is pretty bad. I have my invoice around here somewhere. Iíll dig it up and get you the part numbers. Youíll want to give them a call when you place your order...much easier and they have very friendly staff.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #18
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    6,001

    Default

    +1 for Advance water pumps. I put one on Ashley's C1500 and it's going great. I put an "AC Delco" from Rock Auto on my truck a month after hers, so far so good on that one too. Only did that because unlike Ashley's, I had time to plan ahead.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by matth825 View Post
    Their website is pretty bad. I have my invoice around here somewhere. Iíll dig it up and get you the part numbers. Youíll want to give them a call when you place your order...much easier and they have very friendly staff.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thanks for taking a look. And yeah, that site layout is basically torture.

    Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
    1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
    1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
    1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
    2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    +1 for Advance water pumps. I put one on Ashley's C1500 and it's going great. I put an "AC Delco" from Rock Auto on my truck a month after hers, so far so good on that one too. Only did that because unlike Ashley's, I had time to plan ahead.
    Almosy got to know how good their starters are, but a previous owner of my truck set the advance too far and that 460 trashed a half dozen starters by time I figured out what was happening. Too bad I was too late and now I have to replace the flywheel. Think I'll just focus on the Marquis for now since it doesn't need a transfer case and transmission dropped.

    Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
    1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
    1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
    1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
    2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
GMN Approved Links!


www.rockauto.com www.adtr.net