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Finally Got the Work Started on the '79

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    #31
    It just dawned on me that I forgot to examine the alternator casing more closely last night to find info on it's output. Maybe I'll remember to do that tonight after I get home...
    1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
    1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
    1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
    2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

    Comment


      #32
      Oh yeah, that's another thing... Eventually I'll get it upgraded to a 3G alternator. Planning to do the same with my 78 LTD and 87 F-250. I don't want to use a 1-wire setup, but I have a mix of serpentine and v-belt pulleys all around, and trying to get what I really need is a pain. I think with the Marquis it'll be easier since it seems easier to get a 3G for a 6-rub belt than a v-belt and it's currently configured with a 6-rib on the alternator. Actually, I think the only thing that was on a v-belt was the air pump...
      1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
      1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
      1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
      2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

      Comment


        #33
        3 plug Duraspark box? The third connector is timing advance. Must be run from a crank trigger like the EEC-III cars were.
        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

        Originally posted by phayzer5
        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

        Comment


          #34
          So, before the "shelter in place" order descended upon Illinois, I did manage to determine that the alternator was 70A and get it tested at a local Advance. The alternator tested to work correctly, so I'll just need to get it cleaned up for now. Also bought a new water pump while I was there.

          I've added some photos of a few pieces here. So, even though this thing has the 7200 VV 2 bbl and all those sensors, it's only a 2-plug ICM. You can see in the photos, too, that there are no connections to the dist, either electronic or vacuum, and it's just a regular oil filled cylindrical coil with positive and negative terminals. I'm curious how this thing would have managed ICM signalling or adjusting timing advance.

          I'm going to be trying to put in a couple orders to Summit and RockAuto soon. Going to be ordering some gaskets, the timing cover, the timing set, and some stuff for another of my cars. Figure while I'm at it I'll replace the plastic carb spacer and the harmonic balancer. I've seen some nice 2bbl spacers on Summit, since I was considering one for my LTD wagon. Going back out to the garage later to double check the thickness. But, I'm not sure on the balancer. I see too many options about balancer weight, like 28oz or 54oz, or something like that. Figured I'd get a nice one in there, but no clue what to look for other than one with four pulley bolts.







          1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
          1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
          1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
          2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

          Comment


            #35
            On the balancer, 28oz would be right for all 351W regardless of year. Four bolts. I’d get a stock direct replacement unless you have a need for an SFI approved one. The aftermarket universal fit versions have pulley spacers to make it fit right.
            1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
            1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

            GMN Box Panther History
            Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
            Box Panther Production Numbers

            Comment


              #36
              right, 28 for a 351 and 302's prior to 1982.

              hm, so no pickup in the dizzy, and 2 plug D-spark. No third plug randomly hanging out that maybe went to a Dspark 3? Still has to have a crank pickup if there isn't one in the distributor. Its coming from somewhere. I don't think Dspark has any internal advance capabilities so I don't know what would have been going on there either.

              dunno, I've never even heard of half the stuff your car has on it. Every 351 Vic I've ever seen was just a conventional Duraspark setup with the spark retard input from the MCU. Maybe that was '79 only. The only crank trigger stuff I've ever seen was EEC-III CFI.
              86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
              5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

              91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

              1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

              Originally posted by phayzer5
              I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

              Comment


                #37
                It does have a crank sensor, and I attached a photo of the ring. This isn't getting restored, so not really worried about it since it won't come with any replacement balancer. I guess this would handle the removal of the reluctor from inside the dist. But nothing to suggest what managed the advance. So, I decided to open it up...





                Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
                1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
                1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
                1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
                2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

                Comment


                  #38
                  Fairly interesting cap and rotor configuration, though.



                  Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
                  1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
                  1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
                  1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
                  2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

                  Comment


                    #39
                    I realized that the rotor contacts are kind of long. I'm guessing that with the crank position sensor, MAP sensor, and whatever else is going on in there, the ECM was controlling when to send power in order to control ignition advance, and the length of the rotor contacts allowed some variance to handle that.

                    Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
                    Last edited by ledzilla; 03-23-2020, 11:08 PM.
                    1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
                    1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
                    1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
                    2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

                    Comment


                      #40
                      1979 Has so many one year only parts. I had three 1979 panthers. Never again. If you find a good deal on the one year only cap/rotor, pick up a couple as spares. My distributor guts on my old 82 Lincoln looked liked that.( Cap and rotor were different) A so called mechanic tried to sell me all new parts that were on other year models. He got really pissed off when I came over to his shop and proved him wrong. He just looked at the thing in shock.
                      Get yourself a genuine 1979 Ford full size car manual. Be careful when buying parts. Take the part number from the old part with you when ordering plus the date of production. Also know if it is a Ca or federal smog equipped car.
                      Best of luck

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Mainemantom View Post
                        1979 Has so many one year only parts. I had three 1979 panthers. Never again. If you find a good deal on the one year only cap/rotor, pick up a couple as spares. My distributor guts on my old 82 Lincoln looked liked that.( Cap and rotor were different) A so called mechanic tried to sell me all new parts that were on other year models. He got really pissed off when I came over to his shop and proved him wrong. He just looked at the thing in shock.
                        Get yourself a genuine 1979 Ford full size car manual. Be careful when buying parts. Take the part number from the old part with you when ordering plus the date of production. Also know if it is a Ca or federal smog equipped car.
                        Best of luck
                        Not too worried about those one year only parts. Most of it is getting removed. Where I live the car won't be subject to any kind of emissions requirements, so it's getting adjusted to simply be running a 2150 carb and the necessary vacuum and electrical circuits for being able to run. I can't even find half of the electronics under the hood for sale anywhere, so it doesn't make sense to keep it in factory configuration. I can't even replace the EGR the way this thing is laid out. No one sells this version, and seaching on the part number yielded no results. At some point the intake, heads, and carb are getting a full replacement for better power output, so yeah, not too concerned with keeping it factory stock.

                        Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
                        1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
                        1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
                        1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
                        2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

                        Comment


                          #42
                          I think I'm going to have to pull the balancer and physically examine and measure it before ordering a replacement. Also need to examine how the pulley sits against it, since I see some balancers not configured exactly the same, and I'd like to make sure whatever I buy doesn't interfere with the pulley.

                          On that note, I'm also planning to get the pulleys powder coated. There's a shop I'll be having powder coat some wheels, and I'll discuss the pulleys with them, too. I did some research and the consensus seems to be that so long as care is taken on serpentine pulleys, it should work out fine. V-belt pulleys apparently don't require as much care when powder coating around the pulley groove.

                          Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
                          1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
                          1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
                          1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
                          2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

                          Comment


                            #43
                            yeah the EEC-III ignition stuff looked exactly like that, stupid cap, funky rotor, and the wheel on the balancer.
                            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                            Originally posted by phayzer5
                            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Well, at least it still beats dealing with points and condenser. My dad had a Grand Am or Grand Prix back in the 70's that burned through points all the time. He's also having some issues with that in this old Studebaker truck he's working on. But I think he only dropped something into the dist.

                              I'm installing an HEI for now since I got a good deal on one, and buying it helped a friend. Thinking I might tap into the wiring for the ICM, maybe chop off a plug and repurpose it or something.

                              Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
                              1978 Ford LTD wagon, 351M
                              1979 Mercury Marquis, 351W
                              1987 Ford F-250 HD 4x4, 460, 4-speed, reg cab full bed
                              2003 Mercury Marauder, 4.6L DOHC, JLT CAI, 4.10 gears, J-mod, custom tune

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Points aren't bad if you have the resistor wire and you drive it somewhat regularly. No resistor and they fry. Let it sit and they "fuzz" and then won't go. Absolutely horrible in a boat too. Sits a lot, and its damp.


                                I'm more of a Duraspark guy, but mostly because the HEI distributor is big and ugly. GM at least was polite enough to hide it in the back. A breaker point distributor with a Pertronix ignitor hidden inside is a slick fix too. Nice small dizzy, but no points to maintain. Had one of those on the Beetle I had a long time ago, never a minute of trouble out of it but i had the points in the glovebox the whole time I owned that car. Went to the junkyard with it.
                                86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                                5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                                91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                                1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                                Originally posted by phayzer5
                                I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                                Comment

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