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Thread: 5.0 Nearly stalling...

  1. #1
    Member ZackN920's Avatar
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    Default 5.0 Nearly stalling...

    Trying to figure out why it does this...

    Today, backing the car back into the garage/pole building I legitimately thought it stalled on me... Then it came back to life There is a little ridge at the bay doors, if I'm going in slowly it stops the vehicles in it's track's, and then I lightly blip the throttle to get the vehicle over it. When I let off the gas, the car really dipped in the rpm's. This has been an on going problem for the car while I have owned it. It doesn't seem to matter if it is cold or warm, when ever the throttle is blipped lightly while in gear, the engine will almost stall and then catch itself before it actually does. Why does it do this when it runs great in every other way? Gets good mpg's too.

    It will also occasionally do this when shifting into a gear. No throttle applied, just shift it and the rpm's drop for a sec to the point that it sounds like its going to stall, but then catches itself. Mostly when cold, but has done it a few times at operating temp.

    Normally, with my carb'ed vehicles it's a mixture problem. Most times, too lean of a mixture. Is that usually the same deal with the fuel injected engine in this situation? Do I most likely have a vacuum leak? Or is there a sensor that could be failing? What do you all think? I haven't really dealt with this before on fuel injected vehicle.
    1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-98k miles- LOPO 302, AOD, open 3.27, Dual exhaust w/ Thrush Turbo mufflers

    the others...
    1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan- 212ci I4/3 speed/crank start
    1987 Dodge Dakota- 3.9/A999/3.90/2wd (storage)
    1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer-AMC360/727/NP229/3.08/2" lift(daily)
    1994 GMC Burban L05 350/4L60e/241/3.42
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    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
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    Might be worth cleaning the IAC and seeing if the condition improves.

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  3. #3

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    I second the iac. Do you know if the throttle stop screw has been messed with at all?


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    I third the IAC/throttle cleaner spray (don't scrub the throttle bore, just rinse with a bottle of injector cleaner). Also check the base idle timing and speed (engine warm, steady idle, SPOUT plug removed, as described in the base idle setting procedure).

  5. #5
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    What they said. If the idle controller is stuck it won't compensate for changes in load.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

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    Member ZackN920's Avatar
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    Thanks guy's for the IAC tip. Totally forgot about that... And to think, I had to replace one in the Cherokee because it went bad. It would stall when I came to a stop, unless I held the gas, and idled like shit when in P or N. Tried cleaning that one, it didn't take. Actually made it worse...


    Well, I took the IAC off and found that it really wasn't bad. Everything still moved around good, and wasn't too sooty inside. I took the solenoid off and cleaned the pintle assembly out with throttle body spray I still had laying around. Put a new gasket on and put it back on the throttle body. Still isn't perfect, but the engine acts better than before. No more "nearly stalling" if I blip the throttle a bit. After I did that I drove it into my shop and put it up on ramps. Gave it an oil change for the upcoming season. Engine must be a bit dirty inside, oil was only about 8 months old, only about 2.5K miles on it and it was as black as could be... If I get to resealing the intake manifold this summer (and hopefully add an HO upper) I'll probably change it and the filter again and see how it looks.



    Quote Originally Posted by 87GrandMarq View Post
    Do you know if the throttle stop screw has been messed with at all?
    I really don't know. PO was an old guy that I'm sure didn't do work himself on it.


    Quote Originally Posted by bgreywolf View Post
    I third the IAC/throttle cleaner spray (don't scrub the throttle bore, just rinse with a bottle of injector cleaner). Also check the base idle timing and speed (engine warm, steady idle, SPOUT plug removed, as described in the base idle setting procedure).
    This will be on my to-do list for tomorrow. All Ive done so far was take off the IAC.


    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    What they said. If the idle controller is stuck it won't compensate for changes in load.
    Ok. That makes sense.




    ------------
    Just an observation. When googling around some about the subject, I came across a post here with someone saying that the engine should still run if the IAC is unplugged. Just that it would drop to 500rpm or so and nearly stall/ run rough in gear. So, for shits and giggles I tried that before I took the IAC off. Now, in my situation I don't know if it matters but with the IAC unplugged, my car would not start. If I tried to start it like a carbed car (with throttle held lightly open) it would start. It would stay running just fine too, as long as I had my foot on the throttle. But, the second I let off it would immediately stall. I should also point out that the car was cold, so I don't know if that would matter that it was running in open loop or not.
    1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-98k miles- LOPO 302, AOD, open 3.27, Dual exhaust w/ Thrush Turbo mufflers

    the others...
    1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan- 212ci I4/3 speed/crank start
    1987 Dodge Dakota- 3.9/A999/3.90/2wd (storage)
    1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer-AMC360/727/NP229/3.08/2" lift(daily)
    1994 GMC Burban L05 350/4L60e/241/3.42
    2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0/AW4/231/3.73 (limbo)

  7. #7
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    Turn up the idle/throttle stop screw until it will just barely idle without the IAC plugged in.
    1988 Crown Vic Wagon - daily
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    Other: 95 Ranger, 74 F250, 68 Mustang, 94 Mustang
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    Road Warrior Kodachrome Wolf's Avatar
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    Just a side note, if you do have to adjust the throttle stop, you may need to also make an adjustment to the TPS since you may take it out of range. IIRC, the acceptable range for closed throttle is anywhere between .5-1.25v, but most folks set it in the .8-.99v range.

    My Cars:
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  9. #9
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Definitely change the oil if you remove the lower intake. I blew up an engine doing that once. It will dump a bit of water down the galley, and it was enough to wipe out what was left of the original bearings on my Towncar's original engine. I'm sure they were just about hanging in there anyway but within 20 miles of that lower intake job I had no oil pressure when hot.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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    Member ZackN920's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggie View Post
    Turn up the idle/throttle stop screw until it will just barely idle without the IAC plugged in.
    So, I take it the engine is not supposed to rely on the IAC to idle/run. I wonder how it could've gotten "off" like that? Should I just go ahead and adjust it, or should I maybe disconnect the battery for a bit, then reconnect and start the car and let run for 10 minutes? Then see if the computer "re-adjusted" to run properly as is?...


    Quote Originally Posted by Kodachrome Wolf View Post
    Just a side note, if you do have to adjust the throttle stop, you may need to also make an adjustment to the TPS since you may take it out of range. IIRC, the acceptable range for closed throttle is anywhere between .5-1.25v, but most folks set it in the .8-.99v range.
    Really? The TPS is adjustable on these? huh. I'll have to see how to measure that voltage first to see where im starting out at and what I end up with if I do adjust it.


    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    Definitely change the oil if you remove the lower intake. I blew up an engine doing that once. It will dump a bit of water down the galley, and it was enough to wipe out what was left of the original bearings on my Towncar's original engine. I'm sure they were just about hanging in there anyway but within 20 miles of that lower intake job I had no oil pressure when hot.
    DAMN, that sucks! If that's the case ill probably flush the engine out with cheap oil right after and then change it again just to make sure its all cleared out.
    1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-98k miles- LOPO 302, AOD, open 3.27, Dual exhaust w/ Thrush Turbo mufflers

    the others...
    1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan- 212ci I4/3 speed/crank start
    1987 Dodge Dakota- 3.9/A999/3.90/2wd (storage)
    1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer-AMC360/727/NP229/3.08/2" lift(daily)
    1994 GMC Burban L05 350/4L60e/241/3.42
    2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0/AW4/231/3.73 (limbo)

  11. #11
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Idle set procedure for the 5.0L SEFI is the same as the trucks, but no feeler gauge needed (skip step 1) and set base timing between 10 and 14 degrees for most vehicles. If yours pings afterwards, reduce base timing (factory is 10 - the 88 MGM I used to have liked 14-15 degrees a LOT better than 10 and wouldn't ping until about 17-18 based on the balancer on it It could have spun a little - never checked).

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    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Good, I didn't have to scan that out of my manual that says all the same stuff.

    yeah, base idle reset process. Whee. Usually the only reason that has to be touched is if someone touched it in the past. Usually. Also make sure the base ignition timing is correct before doing this or it won't work correctly.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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    Member ZackN920's Avatar
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    Hey all, been awhile. I got access to the internet again so I can reply. Thanks for the above info. I read it while visiting someone back when you guys posted it.

    Anyways, I adjusted idle speed and the tps sensor right after I made my last post. For the most part, my problem with the idle dipping down when changing gears has been solved. I never did check the voltage of the tps, I just adjusted it by ear/tachomter that I connected. To be honest I still haven't checked the timing yet either. It just runs so good that I haven't wanted to really bother until necessary . So, for the last 2 weeks now I've been daily driving it when I haven't needed the pickup truck. Its running good and seems to be getting pretty good in town mpg's. Good power and response(little better now after adjusting the tv cable a bit tighter).

    One problem has popped back up though... Just like when I first got the car, it is having a long cranking problem, but only when warm. When cold it starts fine, but after it has ran and been off for awhile, if I go to restart it without cycling the key a few times it will crank a good 5-10 seconds before it will fire up. Lately I have just gotten in the habit of cycling the key 2 or 3 times before I try starting. It fires up immediately after doing that. Would this issue be at all related to the original problem that this thread is about? Or my fix for the problem? Or is this completely unrelated?
    1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-98k miles- LOPO 302, AOD, open 3.27, Dual exhaust w/ Thrush Turbo mufflers

    the others...
    1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan- 212ci I4/3 speed/crank start
    1987 Dodge Dakota- 3.9/A999/3.90/2wd (storage)
    1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer-AMC360/727/NP229/3.08/2" lift(daily)
    1994 GMC Burban L05 350/4L60e/241/3.42
    2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0/AW4/231/3.73 (limbo)

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    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    sounds like the check valve in the fuel pump might be ailing and causing the fuel pressure to drop off too quick after shutting down. Might be worth doing a fuel pressure test just to see what it does.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Fuel pressure regulator too, check that. Ashley's was bad and sometimes she'd have to crank for a while too. Guy we sold it to replaced it and said it started it just fine after that. My '88 started instantly this morning, I wonder why they do that sometimes. Smooth riding old thing, how can I sell it?
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

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    Member ZackN920's Avatar
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    Damn check valves... Common problem for the Jeep XJ's too. I know mine had this issue. It was worse in the winter.

    I've been wanting to get a fuel pressure gauge, now I've got an excuse to get one... Well, another one. I had one but somehow lost it, or it got swiped.

    So, if that's the problem and pressure bleeds off after shutdown do I need a whole new pump? I know that what ever it's got for a pump right now is loud as hell. Thing whines, sounds like a terrible air leak that can easily be heard outside the car while it is running. I hate it. Its about the same volume as my exhaust when at idle. That normal? Or does that sound like my car has a cheap replacement pump in it?

    I should also note that the car still has the fuel filter that was on it when I bought it. Been meaning to change it, got the replacement in the trunk... But I haven't quite figured out how to yet. Funky set up on this car.
    1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-98k miles- LOPO 302, AOD, open 3.27, Dual exhaust w/ Thrush Turbo mufflers

    the others...
    1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan- 212ci I4/3 speed/crank start
    1987 Dodge Dakota- 3.9/A999/3.90/2wd (storage)
    1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer-AMC360/727/NP229/3.08/2" lift(daily)
    1994 GMC Burban L05 350/4L60e/241/3.42
    2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0/AW4/231/3.73 (limbo)

  17. #17
    Member ZackN920's Avatar
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    Fuel pressure regulator as well?... Hmm, I wonder how to test that. Other than just replacing it.
    1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-98k miles- LOPO 302, AOD, open 3.27, Dual exhaust w/ Thrush Turbo mufflers

    the others...
    1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan- 212ci I4/3 speed/crank start
    1987 Dodge Dakota- 3.9/A999/3.90/2wd (storage)
    1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer-AMC360/727/NP229/3.08/2" lift(daily)
    1994 GMC Burban L05 350/4L60e/241/3.42
    2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0/AW4/231/3.73 (limbo)

  18. #18
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    The fuel pressure gauge will tell you about the check valve and the regulator, to a point. A chain auto parts store will likely rent you the tool if you don’t want to buy another.

    I haven’t seen the check valves serviced separately from the pump. If your pump is loud, and the check valve proves bad, I think I’d replace the whole assembly. The stock pump in my 88 is near silent. The spectra in my 90 is not as quiet but certainly not noticeable over the stock exhaust.
    1988 Crown Vic Wagon - daily
    1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, former lawn ornament
    Other: 95 Ranger, 74 F250, 68 Mustang, 94 Mustang
    Sold: 1982 LTD and 1987 Crown Vic

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  19. #19
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Could also be a split line inside the tank. If you're dropping it to fix either, change the pump. Its not that spendy.

    FPR usually is reliable but if you pull the vac line and its got fuel in it, dead. Can't easily pinch the return line shut to test it otherwise. The flexy lines are plastic and don't really respond well to being pinched shut. Maybe someone makes a dummy plug that lets you unplug the return line for testing that way.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  20. #20
    Member ZackN920's Avatar
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    Yea, it'll just show if it is bleeding down after shut down, and how fast the pump builds it back up... And of coarse running pressure. Yea, I'll probably just buy another gauge to have in my shop.

    Hmm, I was kind of figuring that the check valve wouldnt be serviceable, but ya never know without asking.

    So, I should just to ahead and get a new pump? What brand is good, reliable, and quiet? This has got to be the loudest pump I've heard on a vehicle. I used to wonder if something was wrong with it but, I have no running problems. Just the long crank/starting issue.

    Split line in the tank? How do I fix that? Is that a line that Would come with a new pump assembly? Or part of the sending unit? Sending unit in my car works fine, I wouldn't want to replace that.

    Pull vacuum line to the fpr, that's easy enough for a test. I'm going to have to look at things in person to see what ya mean otherwise... When I get a guage on it, what's the fuel pressure supposed to be on one of these 302's?
    1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-98k miles- LOPO 302, AOD, open 3.27, Dual exhaust w/ Thrush Turbo mufflers

    the others...
    1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan- 212ci I4/3 speed/crank start
    1987 Dodge Dakota- 3.9/A999/3.90/2wd (storage)
    1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer-AMC360/727/NP229/3.08/2" lift(daily)
    1994 GMC Burban L05 350/4L60e/241/3.42
    2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0/AW4/231/3.73 (limbo)

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