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Explorer/GT40 parts vs HO conversion

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    #16
    Just noted that D9S is supported by Quarterhorse with EEC Editor. Edit only, no datalogging. So a separate wideband on a gauge would be required.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Originally posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Originally posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

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      #17
      kinda have to do that anyway. The EEC-IV has no real ability to do wideband input, at least not on the early versions like 5.0 engines ran. Closest you can get is to sub the wideband for the EGR position sensor and look at it that way. The EEC can't actually use that data for anything, the only thing you can do is get it all spit out on one datastream. It uses that input because its the only analog sensor that isn't actually critical to engine operation.

      When John has done stuff on my car, the wideband just plugs into the computer and the tuning software just reads input from both the wideband and the Quarterhorse and puts it together on the screen. Drawing a blank on the software. Maybe Binary Editor?
      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

      Originally posted by phayzer5
      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

      Comment


        #18
        I located a 5.0 HO engine and it bolted up to the Transmission but I had to change the fireing order and the wireing harness, now I have no problems if you decide to go this route try and find a computer from a Lincolin Mark VII and install duel exaust good luck.

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          #19
          Soooo. would a holley terminator be better? Mustang bro's want $300-500 for harnesses and A9P/A9L set ups, Then you have a $600 tuner (quarterhorse, tweecer, etc) or dyno tune time.... so $1300, seems like a wash and you can control a 4r70w with it... https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-550-943

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            #20
            OR the FiTech is about a grand for the up to 400hp version. On any 5.0 from 84+ already has the fuel injection pump. About $200 for a new 4bbl intake. you are set.

            K
            2000 Ford Crown Victoria
            84 Lincoln Town car signature, R.I.P
            85 Ford LTD Crown Victoria 2 door performance project
            89 Lincoln town car: RIP
            89 Crown Victoria LX 2002 USACi sound quality world champion RIP
            1990 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
            1994 Mercury Grand Marquis (sold)
            2004 Mercury Marauder. owned for a week then got screwed by the dealer

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              #21
              Originally posted by JeffBoudah View Post
              Soooo. would a holley terminator be better? Mustang bro's want $300-500 for harnesses and A9P/A9L set ups, Then you have a $600 tuner (quarterhorse, tweecer, etc) or dyno tune time.... so $1300, seems like a wash and you can control a 4r70w with it... https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-550-943
              I control my 4r70w and 5.0 engine with the use of a tuned 94 towncar ecu. You're not really utilizing the mustangs harness. You are using your original with a few added pins. The going rate for an a9p computer is anywhere between 150-300 bucks. The quarterhorse is 250. The software license if you feel so inclined is 70 bucks. If you just want a tune written to a chip without capability of livestream datalogging, the chip is 60 bucks I think, need something to burn the chip. But it would still have to be initially tuned with a quarterhorse.

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                #22
                Don't need a Mustang harness, and really dont' want one anyway. They don't physically fit in a reasonable way. A Panther harness fits the car a lot better. its not all that involved to pop in a few more pins to connect a MAF. The MAF harness can be had for not a bunch, or it can be robbed from anything in the junkyard. I've since bought proper crimp tools and factory pins so messing with harnesses doesn't require a bunch of ugly splices and such.

                There are other ECMs besides the A9* ones, those just happen to be the easiest to adapt. Its like 3 wires. Any mass air ECM can be adapted if you're willing to shuffle the wiring around enough. SN95 Mustang and MN12 Tbird for example require a bunch of connections moved but it can be done. If you have any thoughts on a 4R70w or AODE, the later ECM with electronic transmissions make a lot more sense vs Fox ECM and something like a Bauman controller.
                86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                Originally posted by phayzer5
                I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by 86VickyLX View Post
                  I control my 4r70w and 5.0 engine with the use of a tuned 94 towncar ecu. You're not really utilizing the mustangs harness. You are using your original with a few added pins. The going rate for an a9p computer is anywhere between 150-300 bucks. The quarterhorse is 250. The software license if you feel so inclined is 70 bucks. If you just want a tune written to a chip without capability of livestream datalogging, the chip is 60 bucks I think, need something to burn the chip. But it would still have to be initially tuned with a quarterhorse.
                  Maybe i was exaggerating some costs a tad... and I'm all for doing things cheap, but really, I will pay more for simplicity and efficiency. After my buddy built a 6.0L turbo 2500HD 2WD and put this terminator system on it, and had it running and driving in about 7 minutes after getting the plugs connected... I'm sold. I hope to get one on a sbf someday when we're all working again. ha

                  Comment


                    #24
                    I too like the idea of the Holly and FiTech systems.

                    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                    Originally posted by gadget73
                    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                    Originally posted by dmccaig
                    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      my real objection to non-OEM is serviceability. Thats why all the non-stock crap on my car is stock for something else. If some sensor barfs, I don't want to be stuck waiting on a part that has to come from Holley.
                      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                      Originally posted by phayzer5
                      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Shit these cars are ancient now, I couldn't even find a Windsor water pump local and had to order one. I think the Holley uses a GM Map sensor, and a Bosh widband O2. So it's off the shelf stuff.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Has anyone tried plonking a complete Explorer motor/2wd transmission/ECM and wiring into a 5.0 car and running it as an OBD2/Mass Air car? I haven't looked at how the hp/torque curves look comparatively but the Explorer seems more akin to the CV in weight and purpose than a Mustang or Mark HO motor swap?

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by bgreywolf View Post
                            Has anyone tried plonking a complete Explorer motor/2wd transmission/ECM and wiring into a 5.0 car and running it as an OBD2/Mass Air car? I haven't looked at how the hp/torque curves look comparatively but the Explorer seems more akin to the CV in weight and purpose than a Mustang or Mark HO motor swap?
                            I apologize in advance for the longwinded response. It's not to deter anyone from trying as I'm in the wiring phase of an OBD-II swap on one of my cars. But just putting the information out there because it's a lot of work. And it's probably not worth it for someone who just wants a turn key car.


                            The 2wd 4r70w found in the explorer is 2 inches longer than the non Lincoln AOD. You will need to modify your trans crossmember to mount it and will definitely need a custom/shortened driveshaft to make it go. Explorers starting in 98/99 also utilized a rear differential speed sensor to get vehicle speed info. This communicated with the ABS unit to the PCM and ultimately to the electronic speedometer to display vehicle speed. Which means that there is a possibility that there is no drive gear for a conventional vss to be driven for cruise control operation and no speedometer operation. So it would have to be a 97 or earlier explorer trans, or a custom built unit with the necessary hardware on the tailshaft. Besides that, without tuning you're still gonna run into issues with the thing having issues with a check engine light an possible limp mode with missing sensors for the emissions crap. Rear O2s actually influence fuel trims (who knew?) Not to mention needing to run explorer accessories which have been done. At least twice (my car, and one of Scott's customers from way back). It really isn't worth it. Custom lines for the power steering pump, needing to swap the pressure relief valve and spring so the seals in the steering gear don't puke out. If you're keeping ac custom lines for that. Running the intake the other way would cause an issue with where the battery sits, I don't believe that the explorer air box would fit, so you'd have to figure out a different box/MAF assembly to use which will require a tune. The other alternative is keeping the stock accessory locations, fabbing up a mounting bracket for the crank sensor (which can't sit where it's supposed to be, so you'd have to clock the sensor lower than where it should be (this method also requires a special harmonic balancer to put the explorer tone ring on (I did this too, but the I had modified the ignition timing curve in the tune to allow for proper ignition timing advance). Or you could have an aftermarket trigger wheel fabbed and mounted to the crank pulley and make bracketry for the crank sensor as well. Regardless of that hurtle the wiring harness physically would be shorter as the ECM bolts directly above the engine on the explorers meanwhile the crown vic ones are tucked behind drivers wheel well. You could utilize a modified Crown Vic OBD-2 Harness. But you're still modifying it to make it work to the 5.0. So you're stuck with making a custom harness. 95-97 vic will yield you basically the same pinout as the early explorer. 98-02 will yield you COP ignition system which would be neat, but then you're making brackets to mount the coils. Regardless of what you do, you're still gonna have to fab something to make it work, and you will still need to tune the engine/computer to make it work. The fox Mustang ECU and whatnot is the most straightforward way to get the job done.

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                              #29
                              Also forgot to mention the explorers have Pat's which disable the vehicles injector pulse. So you would either need to integrate that somehow, or disable it with a tune. Again, pain in the ass.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Yeah, that does sound like a bunch of work.
                                If I didn't have another project (or two...or three...) and if this wasn't my daily driver, I think it wouldn't be too awful. I like the thought of OBD2, EDIS and all of Ford's best engineering in one 5.0 that's designed for a vehicle as heavy as the Crown Vic with a trailer.
                                But it definitely sounds like it would be the much much harder route.

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