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Thread: My '85 MGM, "Maisa"

  1. #861
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    "Don't pay attention to what the bottle says, only the performance of what's in it."
    Indeed I found it kinda funny when researching the ZDDP values of this and that. The "classic car oil" that I put in advertised having ZDDP which is good for old engines yadda yadda. The same maker (Comma), makes a very similarly priced 20W50, which happened be out of stock actually has more ZDDP and it isn't advertised at all. I think it was 0.08% vs 0.11%, that's quite a remarkable difference, considering the lower is advertised having lots of ZDDP.

    Anyways, enjoy this underneath shot of my "rust-free" MGM:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20220817_142125.jpg  
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

  2. #862
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't have any fucks to give about ZDDP after reading that blog. I remember adding some STP ZDDP additive to my '88 C3500 with it's flat tappet 454. Oh how that made me feel good, like I was doing the right thing. There are plenty of oils on that list which have loads of ZDDP and offer ultra inferior protection film strength wise. So there's no correlation between that schmutz and oil superiority. Go for what provides the most film strength and is both affordable and obtainable.

    Nice underskirt photo. Ecoat is a wonderful thing, just look how clean those floor pans are as a result. By comparison, the rear end is scabbier a small child's knee. I've only seen one cleaner, and it lives in my garage.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  3. #863
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Well, I put in the RVS, which made the engine run maybe a tiny bit smoother, but didn't do shit for the clacketyclack, which was expected.

    Coming home from some errands, I heard an ear-splitting screech and I pull over immediately. The AC compressor just seized up completely, and the clutch scorching hot.
    You know I've mentioned it a couple times that the compressor runs kinda loud, right?

    Now I have an engine that goes clicketyclack and NO FUCKING AC, and it's the HOTTEST August I remember. It's been 30°C almost every day for two weeks!
    I guess I should order new AC compressors/ kits for both my cars and throw my wallet out the window, since I won't need it anymore cause FCK.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

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    Bottom end tends to be a deeper sound, like dunk dunk dunk, clacking tends to be valvetrain… hard to tell without hearing it though as everyone’s interpretation of the sound can be different. Perhaps you have a collapsing lifter?

  5. #865
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    There's the sound clip I linked earlier. Dunno if it's invisible or something.
    I'm thinking bottom end because it doesn't sound as "hollow" as most valve train noises I've heard. There's no rhythm to the clacking and it goes away above idle.
    It's not really audible from the engine bay, can be heard much better from underneath.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

  6. #866
    P31 Pursuit Car Brown_Muscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arquemann View Post
    There's the sound clip I linked earlier. Dunno if it's invisible or something.
    I'm thinking bottom end because it doesn't sound as "hollow" as most valve train noises I've heard. There's no rhythm to the clacking and it goes away above idle.
    It's not really audible from the engine bay, can be heard much better from underneath.
    Ah! I don’t know how I missed that… yeah it does sound like bottom end to me as well…

  7. #867
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    How's the rocker arms setup in these? Positive stop right?
    I kinda want to pull the valve covers and check that the rockers are all tight. I remember someone saying that with positive stop rockers it doesn't matter if the valve is open, just torque to spec. Is that correct?
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

  8. #868
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Yeah, that sounds like the lopo knock to me. I know several engines that ran well over 100K miles AFTER they started that noise. As with all things though, YMMV.

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  9. #869
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    pedestal rockers. Tighten to torque. No adjustment.


    Another way to figure if its valve train or bottom end is to use a timing light. Two knocks per flash is bottom end, one per flash is top end. Cam runs at half speed.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  10. #870
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    Removed the AC belt today, haven't driven the car since the compressor went kaputt.
    I managed to turn the compressor about 45° back and forth with a long screwdriver, sound like I'm stirring glass and pebbles in a blender...
    Since it cooled down, the clutch disengaged all the way and I can spin the compressor pulley, it's pretty crunchy aswell, heat got the bearing most likely. The clutch did get hot enough to instantly burn my fingers.
    The belt got toasty aswell, it's a bit shiny and the hard edges are more rounded now, should be fine to reuse.

    I used a tire iron as a DIY stethoscope and the clacking is definitely bottom end. Also noticed that the engine likes to misfire at idle quite a bit (again).


    I'll try to get the AC refrigerant emptied next week, there's exactly one shop in an hour radius that might still have the old R12 fittings.
    When I'll get the system empty, I'll dismantle it and see if everything inside is filled with glitter or not and go from there.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

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    Arguemann start saveing the money for a new engine and don't worry about the A/C untill you rebuild or get new engine as far as a A/C Compressor buy a new one, from Rock Auto.

  12. #872
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    if the compressor locked, it definitely puked trash out. if its the old tube and fin condenser, it will probably flush. Expect the orifice tube to be clogged, and any time the system is opened the drier should be replaced.

    For me, if the AC doesn't work, the engine won't wear out either because I'm not going to drive it.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  13. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    if the compressor locked, it definitely puked trash out. if its the old tube and fin condenser, it will probably flush. Expect the orifice tube to be clogged, and any time the system is opened the drier should be replaced.

    For me, if the AC doesn't work, the engine won't wear out either because I'm not going to drive it.
    Yeah, I'll order a drier/compressor/orifice tube kit off RA when the time comes. Condenser looks like it could be factory, the compressor has a reman tag and says its r12/r134 compatible and the system has been running r134 for the last 3 years. Compressor has sounded just as awful the whole time, a loud "krrrrrrr".
    Hopefully the system isn't completely full of crap, otherwise just a flush might no be enough. If I have to start replacing condersers or evaporators, costs will rocket.

    I'm looking at component kits for the MGM and Caprice, those plus shipping is about 550€. Slap on 24% VAT and ~3% Duty and cry.
    Locally, just a compressor for the MGM would be 400€...


    I've come to terms with the clacking bottom end. It's not a problem now, I'm not dealing with it now, and according to some people, it might not be problem for a long time. I'll keep on driving until shit hits the fan or the oil light comes on. I'll put on an oil pressure gauge to see where it's at idling. That might tell me how long the problems will stay away.

    It's a bit annoying that the AC crapped out so far into the summer, fixing it now might get me use for it for some weeks anymore, autumn and cooler weather is just around the corner.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

  14. #874
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    evaporator won't be clogged, the orifice tube will stop it.

    The condenser is easy if its the old one. One path through it, so if you flush it both ways it should be ok so long as you flush it enough to get all the trash out. I'd also flush the line between the compressor and condenser, if its got one of those little can muffler things that can hold trash in it.

    some compressors are noisy, some just aren't. Possible it suffered damage in a prior life and it finally just gave up. Usually its lack of oil that kills them but I have a reman on my Towncar that sounds like a dying air raid siren and it sounded that way from the minute I installed it. That was probably 10 years ago.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  15. #875
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Looks like a tube and fin cooler to me:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Also it seems that the compressor seals are compromised, the compressor is hissing quietly and there seems to be very little pressure in the system. I tried the valve on the compressor side with a knife tip.
    I was going to empty out the refrigerant in an environmentally responsible manner, but seems like a total waste to drive over an hour and pay to get the last little fart of refrigerant evacuated...

    Should I go with a Four seasons reman compressor or GDP new unit?
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

  16. #876
    Still Wrenchin'! friskyfrankie's Avatar
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    Should I go with a Four seasons reman compressor or GDP new unit?

    What's the price difference for both?
    What I Own: 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
    What I Help Maintain: 1996 CV / 1988 CV / 1988 Tempo

  17. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by friskyfrankie View Post
    Should I go with a Four seasons reman compressor or GDP new unit?

    What's the price difference for both?
    Like ten euros in favor of the reman kit...
    -Reman is Four seasons which I would consider a reputable brand
    -Reman compressor would be black
    -GDP is chineeeese made

    -GDP unit would be new-new
    -GDP kit comes with an O-ring set
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

  18. #878
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    From personal experience and that of fellow AC folks, Four Seasons seems to be "hit or miss". Is this for the '85 GM? Just want to make sure. If you have little choice and go with Four Seasons, you may want to invest in a new one as opposed to reman, if the price difference is not too much and you can afford it.
    What I Own: 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
    What I Help Maintain: 1996 CV / 1988 CV / 1988 Tempo

  19. #879
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    Anyone interested in some mediocre air-conditioning carnage?

    I'll start with removing all the parts. I have no clue on what has been done to this AC system in it's history. The compressor has been remanned a long time ago, and also has leaked a long time. Atleast one AC line has also been replaced, two others have Ford P/Ns on them and look older.
    Many of the hose connections had some wet, rusty grit on them, especially the connection on the drier/accumulator.

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    The orifice tube isn't doing too well, but no big or shiny chunks, so most of that might've been there a while.

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    Well, I'll be sure get the condenser flushed properly, evaporator too.
    I think I'll try to get a couple of the AC lines pressure tested, they have crap built up near the crimps and I don't know if they're leaking or the crap is from somewhere else. One is expensive at RA and the other isn't even available.
    Though the AC has worked for two summers without any obvious performance degradation.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

  20. #880
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Part 2: compressor dismantling and an attempt at diagnosis.

    The clutch got hot enough to blue the clutch surface and to make the powdercoating bubble...

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    The compressor is actually somewhat simple (compared to my expectations), there's an eccentric shaft which moves 3 pistons back and forth:
    The pistons are "suspended" by 2 ball bearings which ride on the shaft on small copper coated pedestals. Said pedestals have very little or no copper coating on the friction surfaces, most were severely worn.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    One piston looks like this, edge of the bearing "cup" has broken off.

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    All the pistons had major wear on the vertical surfaces between the bearing cups, I don't understand what is supposed to keep them from spinning in their bores and contacting the eccentric shaft, centrifugal forces maybe?

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    Both needle thrust bearings were fine, no marring or anything really.

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    Everything you and I see is kinda darkened and not-very-oily...

    My theory:
    The compressor has been leaking oil for a long time, which probably caused some unwanted dryness between the bearing pedestals that ride on the eccentric shaft. And that's how things got super hot. Friction and heat caused one of the piston cups to break and let the bearing, pedestal and broken off piece bounce around inside. That's when the thing went and locked up completely. The pedestal on the 4th photos is completely fused to the shaft, I don't understand how that happened...
    Overall I severely dislike the lack of glitter and crap, considering how worn many of the moving surfaces are.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

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