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Thread: My '85 MGM, "Maisa"

  1. #681
    GMN Regular slack's Avatar
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    I used the TV test port to double check my pressure in my CV after I swapped out the busted stock TV cable with a longer one from an 80s mustang that I adjusted. It's been about 9 years since I did that but I remember it being annoying to get everything in place with the pressure gauge and stuff. That said, it did put my mind at ease seeing that the pressure was right and I wasn't going to blow my trans up.

    Btw, that's nice work on the TV rod extension. Way nicer than anything I would have slapped together. lol


    '78 LTD | '87 Grand Marquis | '89 Crown Vic (RIP) | '91 Grand Marquis (RIP) | '94 Town Car (RIP) | '97 Town Car (RIP)

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    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    The rod is long enough to bottom out the trans at WOT, but it doesn't pull back enough at closed throttle. The travel / geometry is skewed and I know why.

    The CFI TV linkage starts pretty much at 12 o'clock position in relation to the throttle shaft. WOT is a bit beyond 3 o'clock. This means there's pretty much the same amount of vertical movement as horizontal movement.
    In comparison:
    The carb "TV" linkage starts at 10 o'clock and bottoms out after 1 o'clock. In this travel, the position of the TV stud goes slightly up and then starts going down.

    TV stud (screw & bushing) at WOT:


    Both achieve approximately 90 of travel, but in different closed and wide open throttle positions. Due to the trans end moving mainly vertically due to the longer radius and relatively short rotation, the screwed up horizontal movement of the carb won't achieve full travel at the trans end.
    This could be remedied if the TV stud on the carb linkage was moved more clockwise. It wouldn't even be too bad to accomplish, except the extended linkage would hit the secondary throttle shaft linkages. No dice.

    Obviously, I should go the same route as Brown_Muscle, and cobble the CFI linkages to the Holley linkages, like I intended to, before my imagination took over and I spent way too much time on this shit before realizing it won't work.
    There's a couple problems with that;
    -my fabricobbling skills fall short of what Brown_Muscle created with his linkage adaptation
    -the wider linkage means the throttle cable bracket needs to be modified extensively
    -the wider linkage will highly likely hit the factory air cleaner
    -alot of extra tension on the carb throttle shaft bushings due to the longer leverage horizontally.
    -it will still be complete ass to adjust

    As much as I'd like to pioneer this shit, my fabrications skills are basically non-existent.
    We'll see what happens, can't say for now.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20220506_115138.jpg  
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  3. #683
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Also I had a fun time initially trying to check the TV pressures this morning, my gauge records the highest readings and needs a button press to release the pressure from the gauge. Doing that makes the button go SPLURT and fart out warm ATF. Miniature Exxon Valdez under the fcking car right now. Atleast I had a drip pan.

    With higher pressures on the TV port, I believe the adapter O-ring blew out and the port started seeping ATF, which I originally didn't see, because it dripped onto the catalytic converter right below. Conveniently the cats started getting warm enough for the ATF to start burning and smoking...
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  4. #684
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    I am fairly sure that WOT on CFI does not bottom out the TV rod, even with TV set fairly aggressively. But I only think to remark on this when I'm at work and can't go prove it on my actual car.

    Just a consideration. You're using a gauge, so if you get numbers you like but the rod isn't bottomed out, go by the numbers.

    One thing you might run into, however, is that in the quest to get it firm enough at low TV but not slamming so hard you knock your teeth out, your geometry changes might make it hard to achieve the middle ground. I have found with both my 84 and 85 that there is a sharp cutoff point where it transitions from mildly slushy to hard slamming engagement, so finding that spot and setting it just below it would be how I'd be doing it by feel.

    When I had my 91 set "professionally" by gauge at a transmission shop, I found it intolerably slushy. With the cables as on SEFI, I find them best behaved with some pre-tension at throttle closed, which by most accounts is entirely too much because correct specs seem to put some slack on the cable at throttle closed.

    Current driver: 84 TC
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  5. #685
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kishy View Post
    I am fairly sure that WOT on CFI does not bottom out the TV rod, even with TV set fairly aggressively. But I only think to remark on this when I'm at work and can't go prove it on my actual car.

    Just a consideration. You're using a gauge, so if you get numbers you like but the rod isn't bottomed out, go by the numbers.

    One thing you might run into, however, is that in the quest to get it firm enough at low TV but not slamming so hard you knock your teeth out, your geometry changes might make it hard to achieve the middle ground. I have found with both my 84 and 85 that there is a sharp cutoff point where it transitions from mildly slushy to hard slamming engagement, so finding that spot and setting it just below it would be how I'd be doing it by feel.

    When I had my 91 set "professionally" by gauge at a transmission shop, I found it intolerably slushy. With the cables as on SEFI, I find them best behaved with some pre-tension at throttle closed, which by most accounts is entirely too much because correct specs seem to put some slack on the cable at throttle closed.
    Should have mentioned what happened before the realization of the rod not going to work out.
    I did have the pressure gauge installed, and at WOT I got dead on 85 psi, which is right in line with what it's supposed to be. It was maybe quite not completely bottomed out at the trans end.

    Basically the WOT adjustment was spot on, going by numbers. But at closed throttle, the TV pressure was over 40 psi. That 40 psi was as low as I could get it adjusted, without actually removing the rod from the carb end.
    Removing the carb end and pulling forwards/up on the rod did get the appropriate 0-5 psi at closed throttle, but the eyelet on the rod end wouldn't line up to anything anymore.
    Due to the screwed up geometry, closed throttle at the carb end wouldn't lift up the rod at trans end correctly.

    With the different position of the linkage travel on the carb, the rod was too long at idle and correct at WOT or vice versa.


    As much as I wanted for the rod to work, I can't be bothered to modify every single thing needed to get the geometry fixed, which would include modifying the CFI linkages, attaching them to the Holley, modifying the rod some more, modifying the throttle & cruise bracket and then the whole adjustment happyhappyfuntime.

    I've ordered the Lokar TV cable.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  6. #686

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    Crap I should have kept my mouth shut and not made my comment about everything lining up. Looks like I jinxed it lol. I was really hoping that there was a way you could make the rod could be made to work without heavy mods. Hopefully the Lokar cable shows up soon and you can get on the road.


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  7. #687
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arquemann View Post
    ...Doing that makes the button go SPLURT and fart out warm ATF...
    ATF or umm, chocolate pudding if an actual fart shouldn't have been trusted.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
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  8. #688
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    Quote Originally Posted by matth825 View Post
    Crap I should have kept my mouth shut and not made my comment about everything lining up. Looks like I jinxed it lol. I was really hoping that there was a way you could make the rod could be made to work without heavy mods. Hopefully the Lokar cable shows up soon and you can get on the road.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Meh, this project was going suspiciously well. If something doesn't go wrong or cause notable extra challenge during a project, it will soon afterwards.
    Brown_Muscle showed it can be done, but he modified this and that aswell. I thought I could avoid some of it and no, I couldn't.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  9. #689
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    First test drive is completed!

    TV pressure was set accordingly, to right about 35psi with the gauge block installed. Resulted in pretty mushy and early shifts. Nothing too drastic and will be adjusted in the coming days.
    Only complaints I have of the Lokar cable kit is the fact that the return spring wasn't actually enough to get the lever bottomed out at idle (pretty common it seems) and the trans TV lever nut is aluminium. Added my another return spring, now the gas pedal is pretty heavy, so I'll probably do some "adjusting" on that too.
    I can't really understand the usual "flimsy" comments of the Lokar kit.

    Install was pretty straightforward, the carb end linkages get kinda fiddly since there's the factory throttle cable brackets and now the Lokar bracket. I don't have a carb spacer and the intake is very low profile so the fine adjustment nuts on the TV cable are in a pretty inconvenient spot. I can adjust them barely by hand, no chance to fit spanners. Room for improvement, not for else.





    The L-bracket on the trans pan bolt is installed as instructed, I was wondering if flipping it would compress the spring enough for the TV lever to actually bottom out closed. The black inner sleeve might be too long for that though.
    I'll start "lightening" the throttle pedal by first removing the CFI return spring I reinstalled, by the results I might even remove the long Lokar supplied spring on the trans end, and just use my custom made return psring at the trans plus the one on the factory throttle cable.

    Soon we shall find out if this whole shitshow actually cured the jerky decel...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20220509_195432.jpg   20220509_160923.jpg  
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  10. #690
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    wait until the set screw lets go at the carb end or one of the brackets bends for no apparent reason.

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  11. #691
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    The set screw on the tip tends to back out and the cable slips causing you to lose the go pedal. Seems to be the most common issue with the Lokar cable that's I've heard. That and you gotta be gentile with the cable nuts as the threads strip easy if you try to tighten them down hard since they're aluminum. I figure if anything, a little JB Weld (steel epoxy) in the right place and stuff won't come apart. Might not even come apart when trying to fix stuff either, so there's that.

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  12. #692
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Test drive #2:
    Yesterday the trans was too mushy, today I cranked the TV pressure up a bit too much, and then down a bit.
    As it is now, WOT upshifts are a bit late, like they were on the CFI, but otherwise the trans feels pretty great. Nice and firm upshifts, good kickdown reaction and downshifts on decel nicely.

    Onto the carb; cruising at 45mph in 3rd, the AFR is around 13 and on WOT acceleration it goes pretty rich and stays there. Doesn't really bog or stutter and pulls pretty evenly.
    I'll start with getting the main jets a bit smaller to get the cruising AFR correct, then to play around with the WOT.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  13. #693
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    I'm ready for this thing to be on the road again! Got any 0-60 data to compare between the CFI and new setup, once it gets setup?
    1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
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  14. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggie View Post
    I'm ready for this thing to be on the road again! Got any 0-60 data to compare between the CFI and new setup, once it gets setup?
    I did 0-60 a couple times last year and it was around 18-19 seconds. Not really brake boosting. Obviously those numbers are pretty far from what they should even be from the factory. I'll put that up to the rich-running CFI and lack of brake boosting.
    Dunno if I dare say this already feels a bit peppier.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  15. #695
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    I was going to loosen up the TV pressure a bit and instead of using the threaded fine adjustment, I loosened the cable stop like an idiot. And I got to start over on the TV adjustment...
    TV adjustment is a fiddly little fucker and I got lucky the first time.

    Anyways, I changed the main jets from 65s to 62s and secondaries from 68s to the 65s. Cruising AFR is pretty close to ideal, WOT is still rich, but haven't had time to ogle too much at the AFR gauge during pulls, since I'm focusing on the shift timing and firmness and trying to not hit anyone.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  16. #696
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Yes... TV pressure is touchy AF. But once you get it set... you'll be good until the cable stretches or something comes loose.

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  17. #697
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    I've been meaning to comment here! Those gold valve covers look fantastic... Yeah I'm one of the few people stubborn (dumb?) enough to fabricate the TV Rod bracketery and throttle cable bracket to make it all work. I think with the modifications others suggested the lokar can be made to work just fine...but i have no experience there.

    Tuning with a wideband is great isn't it? No more guessing, or reading plugs. I tuned my carb lean on cruise (like 15:1 or so) and got great mileage. What are you targeting AFR wise in idle, cruise, WOT?
    -Phil



    +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. Built 351w, Trickflow 11R 190 Heads, Holley Sniper EFI, RPM Intake+ Hyperspark dizzy, WR-AOD, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, HPP Steering Box.

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  18. #698
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown_Muscle View Post
    I've been meaning to comment here! Those gold valve covers look fantastic... Yeah I'm one of the few people stubborn (dumb?) enough to fabricate the TV Rod bracketery and throttle cable bracket to make it all work. I think with the modifications others suggested the lokar can be made to work just fine...but i have no experience there.

    Tuning with a wideband is great isn't it? No more guessing, or reading plugs. I tuned my carb lean on cruise (like 15:1 or so) and got great mileage. What are you targeting AFR wise in idle, cruise, WOT?
    Thanks! I think the gold turned out great aswell.
    I bought the wideband without much hesitation since most (reputable) carb tuners around here are already booked for the summer. Also tuning with is simple as can be. I havent even used a vacuum gauge, even though it might be helpful with power valve tuning.

    For tuning, I'll try to get this thing somewhat fuel efficient, not a racer and fuel being 9+ usd a gallon... Idle is pretty happy around 14,5-15 so far and maybe I should try the lean cruise aswell.
    WOT will hopefully settle at 13 AFR or leaner, since I've heard that's about the limit for catalytic converters longevity.

    Lokar cable is fine, I don't have a problem modifying a custom part, especially since the flaws are very minor. The fine adjustment is a bitch but that's just my car since the low intake puts the cable so close to the valve cover. Looking at the hood clearance I might have a chance to fit a 1" carb spacer.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  19. #699
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    And she throws another curveball at me!

    TV adjustment is getting there, but after a WOT pull I start to hear squeaking, coming from the belt drive. The AC belt had shifted a couple ribs backwards and was nicely sawing a groove into the compressor clutch connector...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I got the belt back on correctly, tightened and off I go again. Soon enough I'm getting a squeaking sound and it's done the same... I fix it again and now it's squeaking all the time, with the belt on correctly and tight.
    I noticed that the idler / tensioner pulley is crooked and that's what's it causing the squeak. The belt is touching the side of the pulley on one side.

    One side of the pulley is shiny:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Got the belt off and verified it's not anything else squeaking. The idler pulley bearings are shot, but not so shot it would cause the pulley to go crooked.
    The tensioner looks a bit bent by eye and doesn't sit flat on a table:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I took a look at RockAuto, and they only show the newer auto-tensioners and spare pulleys...
    If the bracket is bent and the pulley doesn't seem serviceable, where the hell do I find a new one?


    Obviously this isn't anything terrible, but I want my AC!
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  20. #700
    Still Wrenchin'! friskyfrankie's Avatar
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    I know you have a '85 but what year would be comparable to the tensioner and pulley you are looking for?
    What I Own: 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
    What I Help Maintain: 1996 CV / 1988 CV / 1988 Tempo

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