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Thread: My '85 MGM, "Maisa"

  1. #541

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    The instaclear cars had the 100 amp 1g alternator as standard. Non instaclear cars had either the 60 amp 1g or the 75 amp 2g depending on the year.

    All three of those alternators have very weak idle output with the addition of the 2g being a fire hazard.


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  2. #542
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    I wouldn't consider the idle output of my 60A 1G terribly weak, it's not great, but passable.
    With the stereo on, high beams dim only a little bit when idling. Though my alternator is a genuinely new unit.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  3. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by matth825 View Post
    The instaclear cars had the 100 amp 1g alternator as standard. Non instaclear cars had either the 60 amp 1g or the 75 amp 2g depending on the year.

    All three of those alternators have very weak idle output with the addition of the 2g being a fire hazard.


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    Fire hazard due to the wonderful connector (not the voltage regulator but the top power one). Probably designed to disintegrate before blowing the alternator, I would assume. Sort of like a fuse.

  4. #544
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Instaclear put out un-regulated voltage, not un-rectified. It was always DC, just at higher than normal voltage. There is no practical way to bypass the diodes in an alternator, but running full voltage to the field to juice the output voltage is very easy.

    1G alternators don't have that stupid plug either. Thats a 2G thing. The 1G has a proper bolt-on connection. idle output is lousy, but its a pretty reliable alternator.
    Last edited by gadget73; 01-15-2022 at 09:12 PM.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

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    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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    I've had too much time with my thoughts. I'm doubting everything again.

    Could the jerking on decel be caused by the transmission?

    From what I remember, u-joints were pretty good and the trans mount only has 100k miles on it. The trans shifts and downshifts nicely and doesn't really clunk when put into gear.

    I really don't want to spend 600-700€ on a carb conversion to get shafted and have the same issue still. The jerky decel is the most annoying issue.
    But atleast the carb will (hopefully) solve my rich running and terrible MPG issues.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  6. #546
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    the transmission usually won't cause it directly, but since the torque converter is fully locked in 3 and 4 any engine running problems feel very obvious.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  7. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    the transmission usually won't cause it directly, but since the torque converter is fully locked in 3 and 4 any engine running problems feel very obvious.
    Is the converter always locked in 3 and OD? I was wondering if the lockup might be coming and going during decel, but it might be way more noticeable vs if it's just the engine bucking.
    The jerking isn't harsh at all, but enough for me to notice and get annoyed by.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  8. #548
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    Is that not a "feature" of all AOD tranys? That old "kick in the pants" around 3rd and OD on AOD's from that period.
    What I Own: 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
    What I Help Maintain: 1996 CV / 1988 CV / 1988 Tempo

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by friskyfrankie View Post
    Is that not a "feature" of all AOD tranys? That old "kick in the pants" around 3rd and OD on AOD's from that period.
    Surely Ford knew how to make a drivetrain that coasted smoothly? Like every single fucking year before the AOD?
    If not, Imma sell the fucking car.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arquemann View Post
    Surely Ford knew how to make a drivetrain that coasted smoothly? Like every single fucking year before the AOD?
    If not, Imma sell the fucking car.
    Agree completely but if we are talking about the same "noise/feeling" there is not much to do about it. On the later tranys, the only issue was using Mercon as opposed to Mercon 5 and sometimes a trany sensor to reduce or eliminate trany shudder. At least you could mitigate or eliminate that problem but the AOD's?? I know NO way around that lockup issue.
    What I Own: 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
    What I Help Maintain: 1996 CV / 1988 CV / 1988 Tempo

  11. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by friskyfrankie View Post
    Agree completely but if we are talking about the same "noise/feeling" there is not much to do about it. On the later tranys, the only issue was using Mercon as opposed to Mercon 5 and sometimes a trany sensor to reduce or eliminate trany shudder. At least you could mitigate or eliminate that problem but the AOD's?? I know NO way around that lockup issue.
    When I coast in this car, there's an intermittent "bump", feels like a misfire. It does seem to happen in all gears, but it isn't as pronounced in first or second, so it probably isn't a lockup issue.
    No shudder or noise and except for the 1st gear whine, my trans is totally silent.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  12. #552
    Still Wrenchin'! friskyfrankie's Avatar
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    I know the later GM's/CV's (like mid 90's) have a trany whine but not sure about the AOD's. My friend has a '88 CV so I'll have to check it out when I can get my hands on the car. Doesn't sound like anything to be overly concerned about. As long as the fluid is up and clean with no other issues I'd just enjoy the ride.
    What I Own: 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
    What I Help Maintain: 1996 CV / 1988 CV / 1988 Tempo

  13. #553
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    All aod based transmissions have that 1st gear whirring noise, it’s totally normal.

    Op you shouldn’t have bucking on decel, my 87 doesn’t. It did when I had the ground for all the sensors in the wrong spot. I know you’ve tested a lot of sensors but there could still be a wiring gremlin hiding somewhere.


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    3rd and 4th actually bypass the torque converter via the inner input shaft IIRC. This is what effectively gives the AOD complete lockup. It does not have a lockup torque converter in the sense of a lockup mechanism in the torque converter. Later AODe and 4r7x transmissions however do have a clutch pack in the torque converter that is used for lockup.

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  15. #555
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    right, its not a lockup in the modern sense. Everything before the AOD had no lockup, and everything after used a clutch. The AOD has a split input system. The torque converter drives 1 and 2, 3 and 4 are driven directly from the converter shell. Modern things tend to unlock the converter for decel, the AOD simply cannot do that. On the other hand its impossible to have converter shudder because there is no converter clutch to slip.

    It doesn't mean they're guaranteed to hitch and buck though. None of mine do or have done that. I have driven things with misfires though and you can really tell when the engine is running poorly.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  16. #556
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    My car has a jerk on deceleration. It doesn't happen at all speeds, but if I've got my foot on the gas and then lift it, the car will jerk a bit. It'll also feel a little jerky when slowing to come to a stop.

    No idea what's causing it, or if it's the same sort of jerk you're feeling, but I believe the shop manual does have some trans suggestions for this issue. I'll have to look it up when I get home.

  17. #557
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    Interesting info, on my '86 MGM 5.0 when on the expressway and I stomp on the gas the entire car shudders as it goes into the "passing" gear.

  18. #558
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    Mine doesn't seem to have any other "symptoms" than the jerky/bumpy decel, and even that isn't anything really worrysome. Like I explained earlier, it feels like misfire, which it just might be.
    If I stomp on it at speed and immediately let go, it clunks, but it's only if the throttle goes open and shut quickly. That's most likely just a result quickly loading and unloading the whole powertrain.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  19. #559
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    Theres lock of mechanical action going on in an AOD. The 35-40ish mph shudder when driving steady speed is due to the mechanical overdrive engaging and disengaging constantly, theres a reason you see a lot of us tell people who buy boxes to drive in D and only shift it into OD when you get to driving at highway speed for more than a couple miles.
    Regular driving around, there is the mechanical lock up engaging/disengaging depending on speed and throttle position. It is a clunky trans. Its one of those things that if you don't have a point of reference to a similar transmission it seems all sorts of strange.

  20. #560
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    yeah the AOD is a clunky thing. Drive an AODE or 4R70w car sometime and its such a different animal despite the transmissions being very mechanically similar. The difference is the computer controlled shifting vs a massively complex hydraulic valve body that the AOD relies on.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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