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Thread: My '85 MGM, "Maisa"

  1. #701

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    A Hayden 5942 from Rock Auto looks to be the correct replacement. There is an upgraded assembly, Motorcraft YS-173, but those are difficult to find.


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  2. #702
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matth825 View Post
    A Hayden 5942 from Rock Auto looks to be the correct replacement. There is an upgraded assembly, Motorcraft YS-173, but those are difficult to find.


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    Thanks, those don't show up for '85 it seems. Found the Hayden and a Four Seasons equivalent on RA for '88 MGM.
    I guess I'll order either one, those stamped pulleys looks like garbage though.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  3. #703
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    The plastic pulleys are actually not bad. Getting the original pully off is the hard part. Gotta pry the dust cap off (I used a dremel to grind the cap off) to get at the snap ring to remove the pulley.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
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    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
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  4. #704
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    I inquired a local store about the tensioner, if they have it, I'll drop by on friday. If they don't I'll order it off of RA.
    My tensioner is not flat, be that correct or bent:
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    My thumb is pointing at the bolt hole which is used to tighten the adjustment, and the bracket seems bent outwards above it. Which would correspond to the way it's crooked on the engine. Either way the bearings are toast and I'll replace the whole thing. The massive AC-smog pump-idler-accessory bracket is seemingly not bent, flat atleast by checking with a straightedge.

    I continued the TV adjustment some more, I think it's in a pretty good spot now. Shifts firm but doesn't rev out too long on WOT shifts.
    -Cruising AFR is good, but it could be better, currently it's about ~14. Probably one jet size down (from 62) and be done with it.
    -WOT is still rich, goes to about 9,5-10 AFR and stays there through the whole pull. I think I'll go another 3 sizes down, which got me from ~8 AFR to what it's now.


    I attended an engineers' union luncheon today and another attendee remarked my bruised and scratched hands during some small talk, assuming I had a cat. It was along the lines of "having trouble with your cat?" I just had to answer that no, I don't have a cat, but a PANTHER! Bwah! Wrestling with this panther is what got my hands scratched. A quick explanation of the Panther-platform was in order
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  5. #705
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    yeah... that bolt holding the pulley looks to be a little off perpendicular as well due to the warping of the plate. Might need to massage that back into shape unless you can get an entire replacement without hassle.

    Also, wrestling with the panther... nice.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  6. #706
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    I had the exact thing happen on my 87 but it was due to not enough wrap on my ac compressor. I added a smog pump and problem solved. Hopefully itís just the idler pulley for you.


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  7. #707
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    The other thing that makes the idler sit funny is the missing lower support from having no smog pump. Its usually not a problem but sometimes the brackets bend. The cheater fix is to use the really long-ass bolt that ran through the smog pump and a spacer into the block and a piece of pipe equal to the length of the original spacer and the smog pump. Pipe goes between the bracket and the block, bolt goes through it to hold it all together.

    those 2 piece stamped idlers are fairly shit though, never been a fan of them. I like the smooth one piece stamped steel ones if I can get them, or the plastic if I have no choice. the one piece steel ones you can press a new bearing in when it wears out. The Continental had one of those two piece deals that you're supposed to replace the entire assembly on. Can't get it, so I modified it to take a rebuilt Chevy S10 part I had on the shelf. It was an old one off the truck that got squeaky, replaced the cheapie China bearing with a better grade SKF.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

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  8. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    The other thing that makes the idler sit funny is the missing lower support from having no smog pump. Its usually not a problem but sometimes the brackets bend. The cheater fix is to use the really long-ass bolt that ran through the smog pump and a spacer into the block and a piece of pipe equal to the length of the original spacer and the smog pump. Pipe goes between the bracket and the block, bolt goes through it to hold it all together.

    those 2 piece stamped idlers are fairly shit though, never been a fan of them. I like the smooth one piece stamped steel ones if I can get them, or the plastic if I have no choice. the one piece steel ones you can press a new bearing in when it wears out. The Continental had one of those two piece deals that you're supposed to replace the entire assembly on. Can't get it, so I modified it to take a rebuilt Chevy S10 part I had on the shelf. It was an old one off the truck that got squeaky, replaced the cheapie China bearing with a better grade SKF.
    Doesn't seem like I can get me anything else than the 2 piece stamped unit. Oh well. If the cheapie lasts even a tenth of the original's lifespan of 37 years, I'll be content. The pulley face will need a bit of black paint though.
    I'll check the smog pump spot, I still have all the bolts and bits, so figuring out a spacer in place of the pump shouldn't be too hard.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  9. #709
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    I have to admit that this carb swap has not meaningfully affected the jerky / bucking decel. What in the fuck could it be...

    The bucking can still be distinguished from the exhaust note and feels way more obvious in 3rd & 4th. That's why I'd still believe it's an engine problem, not trans or else.
    Literally the only things that haven't changed is the coil, spark plugs (NGK UR45) and plug wires. All of those are a couple years old, plug wires are bit mismatched though.
    On decel the AFR stays consistently at around 13, but the gauge shows only the pass. side bank.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  10. #710
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    Sounds as if it could be a possible misfire. I'd go through the entire ignition system especially on the bank you believe has the issue.
    What I Own: 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
    What I Help Maintain: 1996 CV / 1988 CV / 1988 Tempo

  11. #711

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    Does it feel smooth with no misfires when accelerating hard? If it were an ignition issue heavy load is when it would show up.

    It potentially could be the trans. Iím not an AOD (or trans in general) expert but I believe there is a one way clutch in there that prevents engine braking when decelerating when the gearshift is in the OD or D position. If itís not working properly it could be intermittently allowing engine braking which could cause jerkiness.

    I would try to decelerate in manual 1st and see how it feels. This bypasses that clutch and allows engine braking.


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    Does the AOD have such one way clutches for 3rd and OD? From my learning of the AOD, those gears are direct drive. Would direct drive gears still have a freewheeling clutch? Or whatever you want to call it.
    Third gear feels like I'm engine braking, but I cannot say for sure if the bucking is freeing up or locking up more momentarily.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  13. #713
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    No freewheel function or one-way clutch that would do that.

    Check your wire routing, if 7 and 8 lay next to one another for a long stretch it can cause cross-firing and do exactly this kind of stuff. Chevy engines have the same problem on 5 and 7, which are physically in the same location as Ford 7 and 8. Both are adjacent in the firing order. Bad wires will do it too. I remember working on a CFI car years ago that ran like hammered shit, turned out to be the brand new wires were just garbage. Stuck a used set of something that was laying around the shop on the car and it ran perfectly. That one didn't so much buck on decel but under high load at low RPM, so going up hills in 3rd gear at steady speed was garbage, foot to the floor and it ran fine.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  14. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    No freewheel function or one-way clutch that would do that.

    Check your wire routing, if 7 and 8 lay next to one another for a long stretch it can cause cross-firing and do exactly this kind of stuff. Chevy engines have the same problem on 5 and 7, which are physically in the same location as Ford 7 and 8. Both are adjacent in the firing order. Bad wires will do it too. I remember working on a CFI car years ago that ran like hammered shit, turned out to be the brand new wires were just garbage. Stuck a used set of something that was laying around the shop on the car and it ran perfectly. That one didn't so much buck on decel but under high load at low RPM, so going up hills in 3rd gear at steady speed was garbage, foot to the floor and it ran fine.
    If 3rd and OD are locked, direct drive gears, the trans shouldn't be trying to do anything else while in gear? Right? Since there's no converter lockup or such to be misbehaving...
    I prettied up my plug wire routing just yesterday, made sure they're not close. Being on the opposite ends of a plug wire separator is as close those are to another.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  15. #715
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    I think I can feel the bucking in 1st, and maybe even on very light throttle in some scenarios in 3rd.
    Was going to check the spark plug wire resistance values, but I don't think I'll have time today where the engine is cold enough. Already tried, but exhaust manifolds are hot and also very close to plug boots lol.

    I adjusted the idle mixture a bit leaner, it's pretty close to stoich now.
    Also tightened up the TV cable adjustments and made marks with a sharpie so I can see if it has moved. I am quite happy how it's shifting now, firmer and better than it was with the CFI.

    Another thing I've got to do it disable the automatic e-brake release, it has started getting sloppier and leaking since last fall and now it's just annoying, a tiny vacuum leak, but the whistling is just freaking annoying.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

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    Yeah... the valve for the brake release is at the base of the steering shaft at the firewall and the line coming from the firewall off to the right is the source. Pull that and plug it. Done.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  17. #717
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    Yesterday I took the car on a 70 mile round trip, cruise AFR is pretty good, bounces around between 13-14. I got jets one size smaller to put in next.
    The car was acting a bit weird and idling rough when leaving back for home and when I got back home. Feels like a proper misfire at idle, even though the AFR was showing a pretty steady 14,5-15. Still, the lambda is only on the passenger bank.

    I got a new set of plug wires to install and I'll check the plugs at the same time. For now I'm on a weekend excursion at a friends cottage, and I'll return to repairs on sunday or monday. I'm damn sure I'll drive the MGM to this cottage some day! Not last summer, not yesterday and probably not Midsummer this year either, but I have a shot in July.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  18. #718
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    Have you checked compression recently? Sorry to ask if you already have, but perhaps you have a burnt valve or some aren't seating properly?

    Oh, how does it feel acceleration wise with the carb & four barrels opposed to CFI and two barrels?
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  19. #719
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    Have you checked compression recently? Sorry to ask if you already have, but perhaps you have a burnt valve or some aren't seating properly?

    Oh, how does it feel acceleration wise with the carb & four barrels opposed to CFI and two barrels?
    Not too recently, maybe two years ago? Nothing notable back then. Same issue was present then aswell.
    Probably should check again, it's just my compression tester doesn't have the correct adapter and I've the rubber cone thing, which is hard to get to the passenger front and driver rear cylinders.
    A crapped out valve would explain a lot of my problems, and it would also be an expensive pain in the ass to fix. Knowing my luck, it might just be that.

    As for the carb setup, the car does actually feel a bit faster, even though WOT goes way too rich for optimal power. Top end feels more awake, even though it still sounds like it's gasping for air at 4000+ RPM. I'll have to time some pulls when I get the WOT mixtures set properly. I might've lost a tiny bit of throttle response, but it doesn't really matter in a boat like this. And in return I got the sounds of a 4 barrel carb, the sound of those secondaries opening is just bliss, even with the factory air cleaner.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  20. #720
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    It could be. Another way to test would be to position each cylinder at TDC on the compression stroke and feed compressed air into the cylinder. If you hear/feel air coming out of the intake or exhaust, toast. Seems perhaps you've got gak on at least one intake valve, for it to buck on decel like that. Carb or CFI, they're both dumping fuel into the intake manifold and if the intake valves aren't seating properly, it's gonna pull fuel & air in when it shouldn't be.

    Before I had the engine replaced in my K1500, it made a "chuff.. chuff.. chuff" noise from the exhaust and would try to suck up a napkin if you placed it near the exhaust. Turns out the exhaust valve for #1 had burnt up. It would run ok for 100 miles or so and then foul out the plug. It occasionally had a stutter when accelerating hard. Do you have any of that noise from the exhaust or does it try to suck up whatever you put at the exhaust tips?
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

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