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    Intermittent Starter Issue Question

    My CV has been starting to have an issue while starting. I haven't had a chance to dig in and really take a look yet but I'm curious if it sounds like it's the solenoid on the fender or the starter itself.

    So, sometimes when I start the car, the starter just "clicks" and doesn't spin. It takes a few back and forths with the key before the starter kicks on fully and spins and the engine starts.

    Last night, the starter spun on the first try but didn't disengage. Even after turning the key off and taking it out, the car was still cranking until I shook some wires by the solenoid. I'm pretty sure that was the solenoid getting stuck.

    So, does it sound like both the starter itself is dead (was replaced in 2011-2012) and the solenoid (was replaced 2018) or just the solenoid?

    I'm hoping just the solenoid because cash is a bit tight these days.

    Thanks in advance.

    '78 LTD | '87 Grand Marquis | '89 Crown Vic (RIP) | '91 Grand Marquis (RIP) | '94 Town Car (RIP) | '97 Town Car (RIP)

    #2
    solenoid explains the not disengaging. Also could explain the not engaging. Trouble is, solenoids fail when starters begin to die and eat too much current. Throw a solenoid on it and see what you get. If it dies again, replace the solenoid and starter.
    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Originally posted by phayzer5
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

    Comment


      #3
      I had the no start issue on my 87 mgm which was remidied by a new solenoid. Take Gadgets advice. Also if it doesn’t engage give it a technical tap or two and it should start working again.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      Comment


        #4
        I hate when this happens. Scared the crap out of me the first time it did.

        Ended up having to replace both starter and solenoid. But i would just start with the solenoid.
        ~David~

        My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
        My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

        Originally posted by ootdega
        My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

        Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
        But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

        Originally posted by gadget73
        my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




        Comment


          #5
          Starter solenoids suck if they are cheap. Buy the best you can get from your parts source.
          1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
          1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

          GMN Box Panther History
          Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
          Box Panther Production Numbers

          Comment


            #6
            Sounds EXACTLY like how the starter died in the 88 I used to have. One day it just wouldn't engage at all. Had to tow it back to the house. Installed a starter for a 91. Better design and doesn't care about getting oil on it from the valve covers. Just looped the trigger wire to the battery lug and kept using the fender solenoid.

            Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
            rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
            Originally posted by gadget73
            ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
            Originally posted by dmccaig
            Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

            Comment


              #7
              Motorcraft solenoids are still available.

              My F150 has the failing starter problem, it welds the contacts on the solenoid every time I crank it. I don't drive it often, and the weather is crummy, and I don't have a garage to work in.
              My short-term solution is to pull the small start wire off the solenoid (so I don't accidentally start it with the key), turn the ignition to "run", and smack the terminals on the solenoid with a screwdriver.

              My original plan was to replace both the starter and solenoid with the newer style starter out of a 90s/2000s CV, F150 or Mustang (3.8 or 5.0, 91+, as mentioned above) with the solenoid-on-starter; but for now the sacrificial screwdriver is working fine for the 100 miles a month I drive it. And I say sacrificial screwdriver because the arc will chew it up pretty bad.

              Comment


                #8
                The late starter is a better design, but it needs a solenoid that functions to use it. Can use any cheap one tho, the current load for a modern starter is pretty nil. Whenever the starter packs up on the Towncar it will get changed. The starter on it was installed like a day before the first Scottfest in 2004? Relay got changed right around that time too. It was just a local parts store reman. I remember the core charge being more than the starter. I declined to pay the core charge, told dude at the store I'd be right back. He specifically said "you're not going outside and removing the starter from your car are you?". I wasn't, I had an extra at home that came from the Mark VII the HO came out of.

                but apparently people do yank starters in parking lots to avoid cores. He told me he had someone start his truck, yank the starter, and come into the store with it so he could take the new one home to install.
                86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                Originally posted by phayzer5
                I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                  He told me he had someone start his truck, yank the starter, and come into the store with it so he could take the new one home to install.
                  Haha! That's awesome.

                  Thanks for the info everyone. I'll see about picking up a new solenoid either today or tomorrow (it's raining out today so I probably wouldn't get to install today anyway).

                  If it still acts up, it sounds like I should swap to the newer starter style.

                  From the rock auto images, it looks like the solenoid is on the starter on the newer style. I have a ton of crap on mine on the fender, how would the wiring change with the different version?

                  '78 LTD | '87 Grand Marquis | '89 Crown Vic (RIP) | '91 Grand Marquis (RIP) | '94 Town Car (RIP) | '97 Town Car (RIP)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The existing fat cable moves to the crowded side of the relay. A new, smaller wire runs from the empty side of the relay down to the small terminal on the new starter.


                    Thats it.
                    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                    Originally posted by phayzer5
                    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                    Comment


                      #11
                      It is easy and worth it. Sly mentioned the work around (looping a wire from post to post) but doing it the way the factory does it is not hard. Like Thain said, add one wire and move one wire. Done.
                      ~David~

                      My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
                      My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

                      Originally posted by ootdega
                      My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

                      Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
                      But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

                      Originally posted by gadget73
                      my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




                      Comment


                        #12
                        Yeah... the easy fix that is actually in the directions for the starter is to use the trigger wire on the starter and loop it to the large wire on the starter. Then you keep using the solenoid on the fender. Then if the fender solenoid dies, run the trigger wire down to the starter and disconnect the loop at the starter to connect the solenoid proper and move the starter cable to the battery side of the solenoid (or just replace the solenoid with a battery cable post).

                        Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                        rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                        Originally posted by gadget73
                        ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                        Originally posted by dmccaig
                        Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          My plan was to do this with the 3G upgrade; replace the fender mounted solenoid with a large fuse block, and extend the trigger wire to the new solenoid-on-starter. A marine-style bolt-in fuse block with large terminals isn't that big or expensive, and I've got a handful of 175A fuses. The cable to the starter would be on the battery side of the block; the rest would be after the fuse.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            not sure how much current the on-starter solenoid pulls but if its considerably more than the old fender relay you might want to stick a Bosch-type relay somewhere in between. Ignition switch might not suffer the abuse. I've never measured it personally but it would be worth doing that.
                            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                            Originally posted by phayzer5
                            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                              not sure how much current the on-starter solenoid pulls but if its considerably more than the old fender relay you might want to stick a Bosch-type relay somewhere in between. Ignition switch might not suffer the abuse. I've never measured it personally but it would be worth doing that.
                              Good thinking. I'd just figured that since the Mustang and F-series used the same switch with the new starter, it would be okay; but I'm not 100% positive those DON'T have a starter relay; and even my 1998 Mustang had to have a new starter switch fairly early in its life--1980s-1990s Ford switches aren't the most robust (but they're inexpensive and easy to replace and relays usually fix the issues).

                              If I get around to the swap, I'll drag out an ammeter and compare the fender solenoid to the on-starter solenoid for activation current. Maybe this summer, or maybe in a decade, lol.

                              Comment

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