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84 Grand Marquis with engine stutter while cruising

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    #16
    Looks like that requires a press and other things I don't have in order to get the gear off. Alternative option seems to be replace the whole distributor. There are options with a steel gear or iron gear, any idea which gear this car has?

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      #17
      84 would be the iron gear.
      1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
      1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

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        #18
        yes, iron gear.

        replacement distributor is the easier fix. I'm lucky enough to have a press at work. I have seen it done using a piece of pipe and a hammer but that makes me cringe.
        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

        Originally posted by phayzer5
        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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          #19
          I replaced the distributor with a Cardone remanufactured one from RockAuto. Nice to see that it's a Ford Motorcraft part that was rebuilt and not some cheap copy. Ended up replacing the cap and rotor again because the new distributor uses a different rotor, and also replaced the distributor cap adapter because the old one had the wrong screws in it. I warrantied the new TFI module cause it was definitely dead and got another new one. Assembled and installed the distributor, which now consists of entirely new and never used parts... And the car still stutters, exactly the same as before. Even seemed like it wanted to stall once coming up to a stop sign. I'm out of ideas.

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            #20
            I didn't do a thing to it since parking it last night and this morning it's even worse. It will barely stay running and wants to stall just trying to idle in the driveway. I think it's possessed... and mad at me.

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              #21
              Pull a spark plug wire, stick a screwdriver up it, and look at the spark near something metal. It should be a blue spark able to jump and inch from your probing device to the metal surface.

              When you set the timing, did you pull the SPOUT connector? And if so, does it change the misbehavior of the car at idle with the SPOUT out other than a slight idle speed change?

              Might also be an EGR problem. Valve hanging open maybe. Or a bad check valve for the smog pump letting it pump air and lean out the mixture. Is it still a happy camper at full throttle?
              1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
              1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

              GMN Box Panther History
              Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
              Box Panther Production Numbers

              Comment


                #22
                I used a spark tester instead of a screw driver and it does send the spark at least an inch. Hard to tell what color it is in broad daylight, but it looks sorta blue. I'll have to check again after dark to be sure.

                I did pull the SPOUT connector when setting the timing. Currently, disconnecting the SPOUT does not affect misbehavior, it still sputtered like it was misfiring and wanted to stall.

                I sniffed around for vacuum leaks before and didn't find any. If it'll stay running long enough I may sniff again.

                A shop replaced the EGR before my friend brought the car to me. It is currently not a happy camper with more throttle and still feels like a random misfire... keep in mind that yesterday only had the stutter, while today it acts like it's misfiring and wants to stall.

                At least it did until I checked the spark for the second time. During/after that it ran fine until it just flat shut off. Not a sputter to slow death, shaking and coughing... just off, as if I'd turned the key. It did that three times in a row, no sputter and wanting to stall, just a cold high idle for maybe 30 or 45 seconds, and then off. Even when I was checking the spark for the second time, it ran better on just seven cylinders than it had earlier today on all eight.

                I should maybe note that there is a difference when starting the car at times. When it misbehaves, either just the stutter, or the full on acting like it's misfiring, it has a sort of pause when starting. It turns over and fires up but there's a gap at the beginning as if it's taking a short breath, and then runs. When the car runs perfect, there is no gap, it just starts up smoothly as normal. In a very terrible textual example, a normal start would be "rer rer rer vroooom" when it's going to misbehave the starting behavior is "rer rer rer vro... ooom". Just now, even though it just plain shuts off by itself, the starting behavior is normal, where previously today, and most other days, it has that slight pause.

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                  #23
                  ever try shaking the relays on the driver's fender? Wonder if maybe the fuel pump or ECM relay is flaky and randomly dropping power. That would make the engine shut off fairly clean. If its a bum relay I'd expect shaking or tapping it to force it to act up.
                  86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                  5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                  91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                  1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                  Originally posted by phayzer5
                  I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                  Comment


                    #24
                    I thought you had it with the relay thing because after jiggling them I gave them a thump and the car shut off, but it must have been coincidence because I could never get it to do it again no matter how much I thumped on them. I took the relays out of their housing and held both of them while the car was running and waited for it to shut off and neither relay clicked when the engine shut off. The fuel pump relay clicked afterwards but I'm guessing that's from a high pressure cut off.

                    I did however find out that when the engine shuts itself off there's no spark until I turn the key off and back on again. Once the key is turned off and then back on again the engine will fire right up. Don't tell me this is another bad TFI...

                    Also, when the engine stumbles there is a click sound that comes from somewhere around the back of the throttle body, maybe around the EGR area, maybe possibly more towards the drivers side, but not as far to the drivers side as the vacuum relays (or whatever they are). Really hard to tell because the engine is pretty loud and the click isn't. But it seems that every time it stumbles there is a click. When then engine really stumbles a lot, there is multiple clicking. No idea if the click is causing the stumble, or the stumble causes the click.

                    Edit: When the engine shuts itself off, if I leave the key on and unplug the TFI, then plug it back in, the car will start back up without turning the key off and back on again. Not sure if that means anything. Something somewhere goes click and hums for a bit when I did that.
                    Last edited by DrVlikhell; 05-02-2020, 09:14 PM.

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                      #25
                      Thermal grease was used on the TFI right? Typically white or grey goop. If it's clear (ish), it's dielectric grease and won't work for thermal compound.

                      If yes... then yeah... could be another bad TFI. I've heard of folks dealing with that when parts places have had them sitting on the shelf or years. They eventually get a good one and it works for a long time.

                      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                      rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
                      Originally posted by gadget73
                      ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
                      Originally posted by dmccaig
                      Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

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                        #26
                        or bad wiring to it. Might be time to shake shake shake, shake your harness, shake your harness. I've seen wires break right at connectors and when it flexes just so it goes open.
                        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                        Originally posted by phayzer5
                        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by sly View Post
                          Thermal grease was used on the TFI right? Typically white or grey goop. If it's clear (ish), it's dielectric grease and won't work for thermal compound.

                          If yes... then yeah... could be another bad TFI. I've heard of folks dealing with that when parts places have had them sitting on the shelf or years. They eventually get a good one and it works for a long time.
                          Yeah I used thermal grease, the same stuff I use between a computer CPU and the CPU cooler. You'd think that with the failure rate of these things none of them would sit around on a shelf for very long.

                          Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                          or bad wiring to it. Might be time to shake shake shake, shake your harness, shake your harness. I've seen wires break right at connectors and when it flexes just so it goes open.
                          I'll give the wiring harnesses a good shake and see what happens. The SPOUT wire has seen better days and the coating is starting to chip off near its disconnect, but the copper is still solid and intact. I checked it for continuity with my meter.

                          The only part of the ignition system that hasn't been replaced is the coil, any chance that could be the problem? I'm sorta guessing not since it does produce good spark and that's its only job.
                          Any ideas about that clicking from behind the throttle body when it starts to act up? It's definitely related, I just can't tell if it's the cause or effect of the misbehavior.

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                            #28
                            Maybe, but the last random "will not spark" thing that I saw was a broken connection right at the coil. The coils can go bad but shaking the wiring is cheaper.

                            Only thing that might be clattering in the throttle body is the injectors. If the signal from the distributor to the ECM was getting interrupted for whatever reason you might get spastic injector pulse.
                            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                            Originally posted by phayzer5
                            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                            Comment


                              #29
                              You may have a dud distributor or a bad coil, dud distributor been there done that just get a new one from a reliable sourse not a Chinese rebuilt.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by Rodentkiller View Post
                                You may have a dud distributor or a bad coil, dud distributor been there done that just get a new one from a reliable sourse not a Chinese rebuilt.
                                As lame as it sounds, he's right on some of those rebuilds. Sometimes the rebuilding company replaces everything with new, or just the failed components. Cheap remanned alternators are like that, replace the noisy bearing but leave the original voltage regulator in. Same thing probably happens with the distributor rebuilds and you get an old pickup left but at least the shaft turns freely.

                                I've got a new distributor in my '87 from Spectra Premium. Only thing I noted is there's Chinese and Taiwanese made ones. I want to say the Taiwanese ones were a bit better built than the Chinese ones, except both skimped on the thermal paste and use some no-name TFI modules. I stuck a Motorcraft module on mine with some fresh thermal paste and it's been solid. Just something to consider.


                                My Cars:
                                -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
                                -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
                                -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
                                -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

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