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Thread: Surge and Rough Idle

  1. #21
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Turns out the canister purge solenoid was attached to the line. It was so totally encrusted in dirt, though, that I didn't notice it. Also surprising was my discovery that the charcoal canister lives under the battery by the cornering lamp. I had thought for some reason that it would be back by the gas tank. They didn't make it easy to get a good look at that thing, but it shouldn't be too hard to reattach the vacuum line.

    I took my first step toward working on the actual engine yesterday by pulling apart the throttle body and upper intake. I didn't expect everything behind the throttle plate to be so thoroughly coated in carbon. It looks like the buildup on the intake passage is thicker and 'wetter' than the exhaust return beneath it. Is this normal and should I try to clean what I can in there? It looks like it's impossible to physically reach most of the intake, but maybe a little cleaning is better than nothing.

    The gasket to the lower intake has '93334' written on it, which makes me think it's a Fel-Pro and someone's been here before.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20200505_183428.jpg   20200505_183921.jpg   20200505_190458.jpg  
    1987 Lincoln Town Car - Signature, "Prudence"

  2. #22
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    They get nasty. Small center hole is exhaust gas flow for EGR, which ends up pulling through the 8 runners when the EGR valve opens. It also gets some oil through the PCV. I wouldn't go crazy with it but if you can dump some degreaser in there to soak for a while and give it a scrub it won't hurt. Spray 9 works pretty good and won't destroy aluminum. The others also work but just watch leaving anything with sodium hydroxide (lye) as an active ingredient in conctact with aluminum for too long. It does bad things.

    if the valve covers are not leaking oil, thats probably why someone has been here before. The cork gaskets these came with 30+ years ago just don't survive forever. The lower intake gasket in the rear is also a common oil vomit point.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  3. #23
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    It appears, after a little cleaning around the edges, that the valve cover gaskets have been replaced. I was going to pull the covers just to see how things look inside, but now I'm thinking it might be better to just leave them be.

    I'm having a hell of a time disconnecting the fuel lines. I think I understand how the disconnects work in principle, but in practice they aren't budging. I'm also not sure where I should be sticking the disconnect tool. The line over by the thermostat appears to have room to stick a disconnect tool over the narrowest part of the line, pulling it apart from the larger, transmission-shaped thing. But on the other line the geometry differs and the line flares into the largest part of the "transmission" apparatus. The only place I can seem to fit a disconnect tool is on the back side of the flared part, as shown in the picture attached. But it looks like there's an o-ring in there.

    So all in all I'm a little confused. But I'm hoping to get the fuel rail disconnected and off so I can move on to the part where the intake bolts snap off on me.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20200521_153938.jpg   20200521_154020.jpg  
    1987 Lincoln Town Car - Signature, "Prudence"

  4. #24
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    You have it on right. Push it up in there as far as it will go to release the clip. Then you have to pull, hard, if they haven’t been messed with in a while. Sometimes helps to have a helper pull the other side of the line while you hold the tool in and pull the opposing side.

  5. #25
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    I seriously underestimated how hard I had to pull to get get it off, but one down, one to go.

    The last big thing I'm uncertain about is pulling the distributor. If I understand correctly, the cap should only go on one way, so that shouldn't be a problem. Then the rotor and distributor both can move and are important to mark their position. The rotor should be fixed in place by the gear, so I don't need to worry too much about getting that right? But the distributor will rotate in place as soon as I loosen the bolt? What I don't have a good feel for is how fussy that rotation is to the ignition timing. Does one degree of rotation on the distributor equal one degree on the timing mark? If so then I guess I have to be basically dead on with the position to retain the old timing.
    1987 Lincoln Town Car - Signature, "Prudence"

  6. #26
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, you better believe you ought to record the position of the rotor before you pull the dizzy out. I made that mistake with Ashley's old '89 TC. I ended up stabbing the thing back in a tooth retarded. Fired right up but had zero balls, couldn't even get it out of the grass.. Lots of steam from the exhaust too, I think it was the tig man himself who helped us out of that bind. I was mere millimeters away from calling a tow truck..
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  7. #27
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    The rotor will rotate too when you pull it out. Mark the tip of the rotor to the distributor cap “bottom part”. Mark the base of the distributor at the engine block. As long as both line up when put it back in, you are good.

  8. #28
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    Dont rotate engine while dizzy is removed.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  9. #29
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    I usually mark the rotor position twice, once with the distributor installed, and again when it comes out. Makes it slightly easier to re-align when it goes back in. Make sure the gasket set comes with the distributor O-ring too. Lube that when you install it otherwise it will be annoying.

    +1 on not rotating the engine.

    Its not all that hard to re-orient those parts if something does happen but no point in doing it if you don't have to.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  10. #30
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    I made great strides toward unearthing the lower intake today. Distributor was marked and removed. The new gasket set did come with a replacement o-ring, but the distributor itself is only 7 months old (after the ignition pickup died just out of Eureka on our honeymoon.) Are these o-rings single use or can they go a few years between replacement?

    The fuel rail made it off following the disconnect of the second line. I didn't think it'd ever come apart, but after plenty of coaxing and pulling it finally humored me and came loose. So far I've spilled a little gas and coolant, which probably makes me an eco-fugitive in the State of California.

    I removed the stud holding the upper alternator bracket to the intake and found the threads coated in a bit of oil. Not sure whether this means the head to intake gasket failed and I've been burning oil in the #5 cylinder (and maybe elsewhere), or oil has just been pouring out the front and rear valley seals and a little splashed up from below.

    Tomorrow is the moment of truth. I hit all the bolts with a little WD40 overnight to hopefully loosen up anything that might need it. If I can get everything unbolted without issue then I think I'll be okay. I have FelPro replacement gaskets, including the rubber pieces that span between the heads. Are these worth using over a thick bead of RTV? And what's the best practice on sealant around the coolant passages? Is it a little extra insurance or am I potentially compromising the gasket's effectiveness by adding more material around these points?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20200522_184524.jpg  
    1987 Lincoln Town Car - Signature, "Prudence"

  11. #31
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    should be fine on the O-ring then. If its soft it will seal. After decades they get hard as a rock and will shatter if you poke at them. Same with the PCV valve grommet. I've actually stood on them without it deforming before, and I'm something of a fat ass.

    oil on the alternator bolt probably wicked there from a leaky valve cover gasket. Those go into a blind hole in the head. If the valve cover gaskets aren't the rubber ones, I'd change them while you have it open. Cork just don't last forever. Otherwise no need to open it. If the engine is nasty inside, you'll see it from inside the lifter galley when the lower intake comes off.

    Make sure the gasket surfaces are clean and flat. If there is pitting, a very very light wipe of RTV around the coolant passages will work. You want a dab in the 4 corners where the side gaskets meet the end wall gaskets. I use long bolts with the heads cut off as guide pins to hold the gaskets and align the intake on assembly. Pretty sure its a 5/16" bolt. If you get four that are 4" long and chop the heads off that'll do it.

    A few random suggestions. If you're removing the injectors from the lower intake, replace the O rings on them. If the caps are cracked you can get those too. Sometimes its sold as an "injector rebuild kit", but it will come with the cap and a pair of O rings. Might also not be a terrible idea to replace the fuel rail O rings either. You want the Viton seals. Not sure if the parts stores have them but its the same O rings Mustangs use, and I've bought them from Mustang places before. Usually they recycle OK but I have torn them in the past. I'd also give the upper and lower intake a good cleaning inside and out. The goo and sludge in there won't be doing you any performance favors. Don't get crazy trying to get it pristine but if you've got a big tote that you can mix up some degreaser in to let it soak, may as well. The Duplicolor Cast Coat Alumimum does a nice job of making things look like fresh raw cast aluminum too if you have any desire to pretty it up. The upper intake was painted a grey color but the lower was just raw aluminum.
    Last edited by gadget73; 05-23-2020 at 10:45 AM.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  12. #32
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    If you have the awesome blue silicone intake end gaskets, use them.

    Distributor o-ring can be reused since itís newer.

    I usually put a very thin layer of rtv around the coolant passages on the intake and the heads.

  13. #33
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    I'll order some o-rings for the injectors and fuel rail. Might as well do everything while I'm in here. I did the PCV valve, screen, and grommet in January, which was a lot of fun with the intake in place. The grommet never fit very well though, so I'll put a little heat shrink tubing around it before reinstalling.

    Thankfully all 12 intake bolts came out without a hitch. Of the eight middle bolts, six were immaculate, while the two around the driver's side EGR passage were a little corroded. I assume the gasket failed and baked them in exhaust. The four corner bolts were all covered in sludge, which had me a little worried about what I'd find inside. But the lifter valley looks pretty good in my novice opinion. Most buildup looks like it's on the underside of the intake, and maybe on the pushrods - I don't know if that's a problem or not. A little coolant spilled into the valley as I removed the intake, but I'm hoping the engine will survive until I change the oil once it's all back together.

    The gaskets have definitely seen better days. I don't know if they're the originals, but they definitely look old. Whoever installed them seems to have put RTV around the coolant and EGR passages. The gaskets also cover up these four depressions on the heads between the middle and outer cylinders which seem to be designed to pool oil. I don't know how that much oil is getting in there or whether it's an intended feature, but I was a little surprised to find it.

    As for cleaning things up, I'm actually working on polishing the upper intake and EGR spacer. Not sure if I'll do the throttle body since the geometry is pretty tight. And the lower intake has some tricky spots too. But when they're done I was thinking of just putting a clear coat on to keep the aluminum from oxidizing. I don't know whether I need a heat tolerant paint or just whatever, as I don't think the intake should get too hot.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20200523_145045.jpg   20200523_145735.jpg   20200523_151854.jpg   20200518_174904.jpg  
    1987 Lincoln Town Car - Signature, "Prudence"

  14. #34
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    looks like this one had better oil change care than coolant system. Engine looks great, not so much on those coolant passages. I've been in engines that had big oil cookies that had to be broken up and vacuumed out before.

    standard paint should be OK. Just have to do something or it will turn into an oxidized mess again. The ones on my car are actually done in cast coat iron, makes for a nice dark grey. I did the manifold and valve cover on the diesel and actually had someone ask me where I got an NOS intake.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  15. #35
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Well it's been a few months, but things are nearly back together. I've so far replaced the lower intake gasket, thermostat, and wire loom in the immediate area. Fuel injectors have all been rebuilt and everything north of the heads cleaned inside and out. I also threw some heat shrink tubing over the PCV valve grommet, which worked like a charm in making it seal properly. (And was 1000% easier to do with the intake out of the car.) The greatest time sink has been polishing the intake. If I'd realized how much effort it was going to be to sand everything down I probably wouldn't have gone down that path. But now I have a strong incentive to stick with the stock engine/power.

    Unfortunately, I haven't run the car now for any real length of time since February, and I'm worried the gas may have gone bad. I don't know whether it's worth trying to start the engine and see what happens, or if I'll save myself a lot of trouble by siphoning out the old fuel now.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20200713_002511.jpg   20200713_225845.jpg   20200718_225124.jpg  
    1987 Lincoln Town Car - Signature, "Prudence"

  16. #36
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    Good idea on the heat shrink PCV. Intake looks good... one of those things I always liked but lacked motivation. February gas should be fine at this point.

  17. #37
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    Dedication.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  18. #38
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutrova View Post
    ...Unfortunately, I haven't run the car now for any real length of time since February, and I'm worried the gas may have gone bad. I don't know whether it's worth trying to start the engine and see what happens, or if I'll save myself a lot of trouble by siphoning out the old fuel now.
    I haven't run my Firebird in 3.5 years. It fired right up and has been running great on that old gas. I did fill the tank and put Sta-bil in it before I filled it and let it sit though.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  19. #39
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    5 months isn't a problem. If it pings, top it up with some premium and just run it out.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  20. #40
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    I bolted the upper intake back on last night. Six bolts, two long ones in the middle, four short at the ends. But one of them was a stud. And I can't recall why it exists or where it's supposed to go. Is there a ground that I've forgotten about? (I replaced the eyelet connector for the ground at the back left of the lower intake.)
    1987 Lincoln Town Car - Signature, "Prudence"

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