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Crown Vic Frame Rot

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    Crown Vic Frame Rot

    I just noticed this today while I was patching a hole in the exhaust after jacking the car up. On the passenger's side by the transmission cross member, it looks like my frame is toast. It looked flakey and bubbly so I gave it a poke and my finger went right in. I'm sure I could knock some more off if I get out a screw driver and start stabbing at the spot. I'm not sure how I missed this forming the past. The car hasn't been driven in the winter in years so seeing this was a bit of a surprise.

    My inspection is in December so I have at least until then to drive the car. (If they don't notice the rot, I may get another year out of it).

    Thoughts on patching it with welding?

    If welding isn't an option, my current plan is to strip it of good parts and junk the remains. Then look for a replacement. Financials might not make that possible so I may have to just focus on the '78 from here on out. It was a good 8+ year run.

    Pics:





    '78 LTD | '87 Grand Marquis | '89 Crown Vic (RIP) | '91 Grand Marquis (RIP) | '94 Town Car (RIP) | '97 Town Car (RIP)

    #2
    If you can find a person who is a good welder, I am sure it could be saved. Can't remember the term but the frame is re-enforced by welding a new section of metal past the rot on both sides I have seen some bad truck and trailer frames welded. Most car owners don't want to bother fixing a car frame. If the rest of the car is nice, and you think it is worth fixing, start searching for a good welder. What are your State inspection rules on welding car frames ?

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      #3
      This happened to me on my 93, but further forward on drivers side.
      It’s not worth it to me to fix so I am putting that drivetrain in something else and junking the car.
      Sorry to hear this, it’s definitely a bummer for sure
      ..

      Comment


        #4
        I would fix that if the rest of the car is decent. It’s a nice flat section that would be easy to patch with a decent welder.
        1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
        1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

        GMN Box Panther History
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          #5
          If that's the only place with frame rot... Like the others said, get someone who can cut a piece of angle iron (not just a single straight piece) and weld it in. It's a little trickier with the trans crossmember support there, but not a huge deal, especially if you just care about strength and not having it look like a show quality job.
          -Phil

          sigpic

          +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. Built 351w, Trickflow 11R 190 Heads, Holley Sniper EFI, RPM Intake+ Hyperspark dizzy, WR-AOD, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, HPP Steering Box.

          +2003 Acura CL Type S 6-speed

          Comment


            #6
            I’d fix it if the car is good elsewhere.


            Looks like the cars went with thinner transmission crossmembers with
            Rubber isolators starting in 88. This likely had nothing to do with why it rusted out... just merely an observation compared to
            My 87.
            ~David~

            My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
            My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

            Originally posted by ootdega
            My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

            Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
            But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

            Originally posted by gadget73
            my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




            Comment


              #7
              A lot of it depends how bad it actually is.
              It looks bad now, once you start cutting the bad stuff out, it might end up being much worse.
              That’s how it went with me. Also the part of mine was not nice and flat like your section so you are better off than me lol
              But lots of times frames rot from the inside out, and can look pretty bad from the outside but are actually terrible inside.

              My state requires a certified welder to weld on a passenger car frame. It may never come up, but my state also has 5 cameras watching the inspector giving you the inspection sticker.
              True story
              ..

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by massacre View Post
                A lot of it depends how bad it actually is.
                It looks bad now, once you start cutting the bad stuff out, it might end up being much worse.
                That’s how it went with me. Also the part of mine was not nice and flat like your section so you are better off than me lol
                But lots of times frames rot from the inside out, and can look pretty bad from the outside but are actually terrible inside.

                My state requires a certified welder to weld on a passenger car frame. It may never come up, but my state also has 5 cameras watching the inspector giving you the inspection sticker.
                True story
                That's sort of my thinking as well. Everywhere else, from what I can see, looks okay from the outside but it wouldn't surprise me now if down the road another spot popped up. That said, it sounds like checking out someone who can weld the spot would be something to look into if it's not too expensive.

                From what I can find, as long as the frame is welded correctly, it shouldn't be a problem with passing inspection. (It appears to be up to the discretion of the inspector)

                Anyone know how to go about finding a shop that will do this? Is it just calling up a regular collision repair place? I've never needed anything welded like this before in the past so I'm not exactly sure who to reach out to for a quote.

                '78 LTD | '87 Grand Marquis | '89 Crown Vic (RIP) | '91 Grand Marquis (RIP) | '94 Town Car (RIP) | '97 Town Car (RIP)

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                  #9
                  A body shop could do this. I used a local welding shop.
                  03 Marauder DPB, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, U-Haul Trans Pan, Blue Fuzzy Dice
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                    #10
                    Poke hard at other areas before committing to having it fixed. Look especially close at the area under the A pillar where the front lower control arm mounts. Thats where they most typically blow out.
                    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

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                    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                    Originally posted by phayzer5
                    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                      Poke hard at other areas before committing to having it fixed. Look especially close at the area under the A pillar where the front lower control arm mounts. Thats where they most typically blow out.
                      Yup that’s what got me.
                      It went from not too bad to oh shit pretty quick but that could be regional.
                      ..

                      Comment


                        #12
                        on the passenger side its where the AC drips, so if you live in summer country and have a working AC its more likely to be shot there. Salt and such doesn't do it favors either. Mine was actually bad on the other side, right where the trans bellcrank bracket sits. Not a big hole, just enough that it needed a patch.
                        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                        Originally posted by phayzer5
                        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                          on the passenger side its where the AC drips, so if you live in summer country and have a working AC its more likely to be shot there. Salt and such doesn't do it favors either. Mine was actually bad on the other side, right where the trans bellcrank bracket sits. Not a big hole, just enough that it needed a patch.
                          Yeah that’s funny I remember the pass side being a culprit. Pass side has some but driver’s has way more for whatever reason.
                          From my time as a fleet mechanic, I noticed that the curb side is usually the worst side.
                          At least in my climate.
                          Lots of plowing and salt.
                          ..

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Poking was a good idea. I took a big screw driver and just started stabbing at suspect places.

                            Passenger side front by the lower control arm was rock solid. Driver's side didn't look great:

                            Before poking:


                            After poking:

                            Still not terrible. inside the hole on the sides and top still looked okay. Just the bottom part opened up a little larger than a quarter.

                            Poking around the crossmember rot spot noticed in the first post on passengers side (driver's side was solid, no rust):

                            Side view:


                            Bottom view:


                            While I was down there poking that area, I noticed a section on the side of the frame rail that I thought was just peeling paint (I previously POR15'd the frame years ago). Looks like it wasn't... after some more stabbing:


                            Backed away view of passenger side's total rot:


                            So, it looks like the whole straight section from in front of the crossmember to the end of the back door would need to be patched I guess.

                            Probably too much at this point to get patched, right?

                            It's weird that it's only the one spot on the driver's side and then this section on the passenger's side.

                            '78 LTD | '87 Grand Marquis | '89 Crown Vic (RIP) | '91 Grand Marquis (RIP) | '94 Town Car (RIP) | '97 Town Car (RIP)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Not good. If the rest of the car was perfect and you were in love with it. I would do a frame swap. It seems like the more you probe, the more rot you will find. Time to part it out.

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