PotM GrandMarq.NET - Panther Headquarters Forum Index PotM
GMN Chat Room GMN's STORE!! GMN's Gallery Please!!
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: Crown Vic Frame Rot

  1. #1
    GMN Regular slack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    1,265

    Unhappy Crown Vic Frame Rot

    I just noticed this today while I was patching a hole in the exhaust after jacking the car up. On the passenger's side by the transmission cross member, it looks like my frame is toast. It looked flakey and bubbly so I gave it a poke and my finger went right in. I'm sure I could knock some more off if I get out a screw driver and start stabbing at the spot. I'm not sure how I missed this forming the past. The car hasn't been driven in the winter in years so seeing this was a bit of a surprise.

    My inspection is in December so I have at least until then to drive the car. (If they don't notice the rot, I may get another year out of it).

    Thoughts on patching it with welding?

    If welding isn't an option, my current plan is to strip it of good parts and junk the remains. Then look for a replacement. Financials might not make that possible so I may have to just focus on the '78 from here on out. It was a good 8+ year run.

    Pics:





  2. #2
    fomoco panthers !
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Bangor,Maine
    Posts
    3,149

    Default

    If you can find a person who is a good welder, I am sure it could be saved. Can't remember the term but the frame is re-enforced by welding a new section of metal past the rot on both sides I have seen some bad truck and trailer frames welded. Most car owners don't want to bother fixing a car frame. If the rest of the car is nice, and you think it is worth fixing, start searching for a good welder. What are your State inspection rules on welding car frames ?

  3. #3
    Donating Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    93

    Default

    This happened to me on my 93, but further forward on drivers side.
    It’s not worth it to me to fix so I am putting that drivetrain in something else and junking the car.
    Sorry to hear this, it’s definitely a bummer for sure
    ..

  4. #4
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Bedford, VA
    Posts
    5,668

    Default

    I would fix that if the rest of the car is decent. It’s a nice flat section that would be easy to patch with a decent welder.
    1988 Crown Vic Wagon - daily
    1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, former lawn ornament
    Other: 95 Ranger, 74 F250, 68 Mustang, 94 Mustang
    Sold: 1982 LTD and 1987 Crown Vic

    GMN Box Panther History
    Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
    Box Panther Production Numbers

  5. #5
    P31 Pursuit Car Brown_Muscle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,908

    Default

    If that's the only place with frame rot... Like the others said, get someone who can cut a piece of angle iron (not just a single straight piece) and weld it in. It's a little trickier with the trans crossmember support there, but not a huge deal, especially if you just care about strength and not having it look like a show quality job.
    -Phil



    +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. 351w, GT40 Heads, Edelbrock 1906 Carb, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, Baumann Shift kit.

    +1975 Maverick- Fuel injected 302, Trickflow 170 heads, XE270 cam, explorer intakes, 24# injectors, custom tune. T5 transmission, 3.55 Yukon Trac-Lok rear.

  6. #6
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Whitestone, NY
    Posts
    19,152

    Default

    I’d fix it if the car is good elsewhere.


    Looks like the cars went with thinner transmission crossmembers with
    Rubber isolators starting in 88. This likely had nothing to do with why it rusted out... just merely an observation compared to
    My 87.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  7. #7
    Donating Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    93

    Default

    A lot of it depends how bad it actually is.
    It looks bad now, once you start cutting the bad stuff out, it might end up being much worse.
    That’s how it went with me. Also the part of mine was not nice and flat like your section so you are better off than me lol
    But lots of times frames rot from the inside out, and can look pretty bad from the outside but are actually terrible inside.

    My state requires a certified welder to weld on a passenger car frame. It may never come up, but my state also has 5 cameras watching the inspector giving you the inspection sticker.
    True story
    ..

  8. #8
    GMN Regular slack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    1,265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by massacre View Post
    A lot of it depends how bad it actually is.
    It looks bad now, once you start cutting the bad stuff out, it might end up being much worse.
    That’s how it went with me. Also the part of mine was not nice and flat like your section so you are better off than me lol
    But lots of times frames rot from the inside out, and can look pretty bad from the outside but are actually terrible inside.

    My state requires a certified welder to weld on a passenger car frame. It may never come up, but my state also has 5 cameras watching the inspector giving you the inspection sticker.
    True story
    That's sort of my thinking as well. Everywhere else, from what I can see, looks okay from the outside but it wouldn't surprise me now if down the road another spot popped up. That said, it sounds like checking out someone who can weld the spot would be something to look into if it's not too expensive.

    From what I can find, as long as the frame is welded correctly, it shouldn't be a problem with passing inspection. (It appears to be up to the discretion of the inspector)

    Anyone know how to go about finding a shop that will do this? Is it just calling up a regular collision repair place? I've never needed anything welded like this before in the past so I'm not exactly sure who to reach out to for a quote.

  9. #9
    I post a lot...
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Yonkers NY
    Posts
    4,140

    Default

    A body shop could do this. I used a local welding shop.
    "X" car 89 Colony Park LS Mods>Engine delete, SS duals magnaflow hflow cats, 2010 Must GT mufflers, auto air shocks, Posi, Tran cooler, big front brakes, 03+ rear disks, Large 3g alt, Tripminder, GS grill, 86 seats, 16" HPP wheels, winter boots=96 Cartier wheels, 215-65/16 Goodyear ULTRA GW3 snows, pi rear sway, alum driveshaft.
    03 Marauder DBP, HS, 6disk, Organizer, Silver Stars, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector.
    02 SL500 Silver Arrow
    08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated Cooper Zeon RS3-A, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17

  10. #10
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    39,270

    Default

    Poke hard at other areas before committing to having it fixed. Look especially close at the area under the A pillar where the front lower control arm mounts. Thats where they most typically blow out.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  11. #11
    Donating Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    93

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    Poke hard at other areas before committing to having it fixed. Look especially close at the area under the A pillar where the front lower control arm mounts. Thats where they most typically blow out.
    Yup that’s what got me.
    It went from not too bad to oh shit pretty quick but that could be regional.
    ..

  12. #12
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    39,270

    Default

    on the passenger side its where the AC drips, so if you live in summer country and have a working AC its more likely to be shot there. Salt and such doesn't do it favors either. Mine was actually bad on the other side, right where the trans bellcrank bracket sits. Not a big hole, just enough that it needed a patch.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  13. #13
    Donating Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    93

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    on the passenger side its where the AC drips, so if you live in summer country and have a working AC its more likely to be shot there. Salt and such doesn't do it favors either. Mine was actually bad on the other side, right where the trans bellcrank bracket sits. Not a big hole, just enough that it needed a patch.
    Yeah that’s funny I remember the pass side being a culprit. Pass side has some but driver’s has way more for whatever reason.
    From my time as a fleet mechanic, I noticed that the curb side is usually the worst side.
    At least in my climate.
    Lots of plowing and salt.
    ..

  14. #14
    GMN Regular slack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    1,265

    Default

    Poking was a good idea. I took a big screw driver and just started stabbing at suspect places.

    Passenger side front by the lower control arm was rock solid. Driver's side didn't look great:

    Before poking:


    After poking:

    Still not terrible. inside the hole on the sides and top still looked okay. Just the bottom part opened up a little larger than a quarter.

    Poking around the crossmember rot spot noticed in the first post on passengers side (driver's side was solid, no rust):

    Side view:


    Bottom view:


    While I was down there poking that area, I noticed a section on the side of the frame rail that I thought was just peeling paint (I previously POR15'd the frame years ago). Looks like it wasn't... after some more stabbing:


    Backed away view of passenger side's total rot:


    So, it looks like the whole straight section from in front of the crossmember to the end of the back door would need to be patched I guess.

    Probably too much at this point to get patched, right?

    It's weird that it's only the one spot on the driver's side and then this section on the passenger's side.

  15. #15
    fomoco panthers !
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Bangor,Maine
    Posts
    3,149

    Default

    Not good. If the rest of the car was perfect and you were in love with it. I would do a frame swap. It seems like the more you probe, the more rot you will find. Time to part it out.

  16. #16
    Donating Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    93

    Default

    So sorry to see that, I know what itís like to find unexpected frame rot.
    On one hand itís a huge bummer, but itís also good in a way because getting into an accident would be kinda shitty.
    If you are a good metalworker/welder, and your state doesnít require a certified welder (or you are a certified welder) you could definitely fix that. But to do it correctly and make sure the frame is straight is a lot of work. And would take a lot of time.

    If you have a ton of money into the car, and the car is pristine otherwise, a frame swap may be your best bet like was said above. If you have a lot of money into the drivetrain, you could swap your drivetrain into a different car as well.
    In my area, finding a box frame is like finding a needle in a haystack, same with Aeros. Not sure about where you live. You could roll a late model chassis under it, it has been done before.

    Again sorry to hear this, hope you get it sorted out
    ..

  17. #17
    GMN Regular slack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    1,265

    Default

    Yeah finding a nice frame would probably be close to impossible if it didn't already have a car attached to it. At that point, it would make more sense to just fix up the one with the good frame.

    Looks like I'll drive it until it's inspection is up at the end of the year and then strip it come the spring and look for another. It's a shame because mechanically it's completely fine. The body itself isn't rotted either (besides the trunk parts that I "patched" last year). Fenders, doors, bumpers, hood, interior are all good so I'll hopefully be able to take all that off before junking it. Plan on keeping the engine, trans and police sway bars as well.

    I found another post where their car rotted in the same exact spot: http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...ust-Prevention

    I guess passenger side frame rail is common. I haven't had AC in the car in the 8 years I've owned it and not sure how long before that since it worked. I wonder if this was from parking on the street with the passenger side rotting due to facing the grass side of the curb?
    Last edited by slack; 06-21-2020 at 02:58 AM.

  18. #18
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Bedford, VA
    Posts
    5,668

    Default

    Looks bad mang.

    There are still a bunch of these rust free cars out there begging for a caring owner.
    1988 Crown Vic Wagon - daily
    1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, former lawn ornament
    Other: 95 Ranger, 74 F250, 68 Mustang, 94 Mustang
    Sold: 1982 LTD and 1987 Crown Vic

    GMN Box Panther History
    Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
    Box Panther Production Numbers

  19. #19
    fomoco panthers !
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Bangor,Maine
    Posts
    3,149

    Default

    The passenger side of the vehicles at least here seem to get the the wear the most. The suspension due to the break down of the road on the right side. The body rot on the passenger side due to the plow trucks pushing the snow and salt brine to the right side. That salt just sits there all year and gets all over especially when it rains. Winter weather just slowly kills, like cancer. It seems like pickup trucks get it the worst. I see even 3 year old trucks rotting out.

  20. #20
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    39,270

    Default

    the brine is pure liquid evil.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
GMN Approved Links!


www.rockauto.com www.adtr.net