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Thread: 3G Alternator Belt Squeal

  1. #21
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by sly View Post
    needs to be reclocked
    Disagree, in the case of the Taurus/Sable (don't know about Windstar, maybe it's the same). I run them as they are when I take them off the junkyard car, with no issues.

    However the clocking is somewhat better on the other clocked version.

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  2. #22

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    How much of a difference in idle output is there between the 95 and 130 amp versions?

    Thanks for that list too. Took a screenshot just in case.


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  3. #23
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    not sure but I expect both are better than the 65 amp 2g.

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    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    not sure but I expect both are better than the 65 amp 2g.
    This is true.

    On my 93, the headlight dimming is almost nonexistant. You can barely tell with the 130A. The 95A you could definitely tell. I never measured it, but the volt needle on the dash would drop a letter (spells out NORMAL and would drop from between RM to between OR). So I would guess a volt or 2 drop. Still "within spec" as it's probably above 12V, but I prefer my 14.4 to be 14.4 and not 13.0 or lower. And when I had the twin 10 inch subs booming hard, you could see the lights flicker with the beat. After the 130A swap, that was barely visible. I'm down to 1 10 inch sub to reclaim trunk space and now I don't have that issue. The current issue is the clutch pulley I have sometimes slips more under certain loads and I don't get good charge at idle. I have a regular pulley to put on it but I need to find the spline tool to remove the clutch pulley first. And I haven't been able to find the stupid thing.

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  5. #25
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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  6. #26
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Cool, thats useful. Curious what the 1g 100a is.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  7. #27
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    I don't think the headlights dim on my MGM, if they do, it's unnoticeable even in the dark. I can even see the orange light of the blinker reflecting of road signs quite far away.
    I have a pretty much brand-new 60 A 1G on it, supposedly new, not even a reman... The regulator (which actually was the culprit for not charging) is an original Motorcraft from a '79 Colony Park, the wiring harness has sat in a box in the garage all the way from late 90's when the CP was scrapped for parts.
    Charges over 14 volts even at slow, cold idle, not that it really matters.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arquemann View Post
    I don't think the headlights dim on my MGM, if they do, it's unnoticeable even in the dark. I can even see the orange light of the blinker reflecting of road signs quite far away.
    I have a pretty much brand-new 60 A 1G on it, supposedly new, not even a reman... The regulator (which actually was the culprit for not charging) is an original Motorcraft from a '79 Colony Park, the wiring harness has sat in a box in the garage all the way from late 90's when the CP was scrapped for parts.
    Charges over 14 volts even at slow, cold idle, not that it really matters.
    The advantages of upgrading from the 1G to the 3G are less than the advantages of upgrading from a 2G to a 3G. I have done it on 2 of my Panthers built with 1Gs, but mainly because I want to standardize things like belts across all my vehicles.

    2G to 3G is pretty much essential. The 2G never should have existed and its design shortcomings make it a hazard to have in your vehicle.

    The 1G is just a little sub-optimal in terms of output, but for a car with stock-like electrical needs, it's perfectly adequate. This is why my wagon still has its 60A 1G. That being said, at idle, with the headlights, wipers and blower motor on...things do slow down a bit.

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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kishy View Post
    The advantages of upgrading from the 1G to the 3G are less than the advantages of upgrading from a 2G to a 3G. I have done it on 2 of my Panthers built with 1Gs, but mainly because I want to standardize things like belts across all my vehicles.

    2G to 3G is pretty much essential. The 2G never should have existed and its design shortcomings make it a hazard to have in your vehicle.

    The 1G is just a little sub-optimal in terms of output, but for a car with stock-like electrical needs, it's perfectly adequate. This is why my wagon still has its 60A 1G. That being said, at idle, with the headlights, wipers and blower motor on...things do slow down a bit.
    Most definitely enough for a stock vehicle, in my case it's better to try and keep things stock. Then, hopefully no one will be too deep in shit when something breaks. It's kinda funny when the blinkers change speed depending on what's going on.
    My MGM could do with a headlight upgrade, though it's only a summer car, so why bother... Wouldn't mind improving the radio and speakers too, but a JBL Bluetooth speaker in the back seat has done well enough so far. I'd probably hide a BT head unit in the glove box and just have a set of nice speakers, subs are meh and excessive bass-thumping isn't really my thing.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
    1997 Volvo 850 GLE Estate

  10. #30

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    Thanks for posting that chart Tiggie. Thatís good info. I was looking all over trying to find specifications.

    This morning was comical trying to find a parts store that could test the 95a. At the first store the person put the alternator on the tester without making any electrical connections. He pointed to the screen pointing out it failed then asked me promptly if I wanted a new one. I took it back, looked him in the eyes, shook my head then left. At the second store the person couldnít find the correct cables to hook it up. Third store was finally able to test it and it checked out.

    Since itís good Iíll be trying it out to see if the headlight dimming/turn signal slowing at idle is acceptable for me. Since itís a given it will be better than the 1g Iíll most likely keep it providing I like how it fits.

    Why am I doing this since I already have a 130 amp 3g on the car? I really donít like that the belt adjustment is maxed out with a brand new belt. As it stretches I have no way to tighten it. For me, grinding down the unobtanium power steering pump bracket to allow more clearance for a shorter belt doesnít feel right.

    Arquemann- Iíve been thinking of headlight upgrades too. My car sees about a month of night time driving before it does into storage. Some LED retrofits would definitely help!


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  11. #31
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    So one thing I have noticed about V6 3G units is they run a larger pulley than the V8 cars. I’m considering swapping mine out to a smaller one on the ‘87 due to only semi-adequate output with a lot of accessories on and the car warmed up in gear.

    With the pulley size change, I know the current belt won’t fit, and the stock size might actually be correct again. Just a thought to retain the 130 amp unit without having too much travel on the adjuster. Mine is in a similar boat with the adjustment almost all the way out.

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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arquemann View Post
    Most definitely enough for a stock vehicle, in my case it's better to try and keep things stock. Then, hopefully no one will be too deep in shit when something breaks. It's kinda funny when the blinkers change speed depending on what's going on.
    My MGM could do with a headlight upgrade, though it's only a summer car, so why bother... Wouldn't mind improving the radio and speakers too, but a JBL Bluetooth speaker in the back seat has done well enough so far. I'd probably hide a BT head unit in the glove box and just have a set of nice speakers, subs are meh and excessive bass-thumping isn't really my thing.
    1G alts may not have the output, but they are pretty well built and lost a long time. The 2G alts are a fire hazard and could burn a car to the ground.

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  13. #33
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    honestly if they had used a bolt-on charge cable with the 2G like they did for every other alternator, it wouldn't even be that big of a problem.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  14. #34

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    Kodachrome Wolf - I noticed the same regarding the pulleys. I changed mine out to the smaller mustang one. I tried to get the stock belt on with it and it would just not go. I even left the lower alternator pivot bolt out and hooked the alternator under the belt. From poking through different threads it seems there is some minor variations in the brackets from vehicle to vehicle that allow certain tricks to work on one and not the other. It is definitely worth trying as the smaller pulley makes a difference.


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  15. #35

    Default 3G Alternator Belt Squeal

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    honestly if they had used a bolt-on charge cable with the 2G like they did for every other alternator, it wouldn't even be that big of a problem.
    I always wondered why they used that goofey plug. Must have been to save time during assembly.


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    Last edited by matth825; 11-15-2020 at 08:19 PM.

  16. #36
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    most likely. Does make it quick to R&R but I'll trade mild installation inconvenience for not catching on fire.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  17. #37

    Default 3G Alternator Belt Squeal

    I test fit the 95a today and it is perfect! Stock belt fits without issue. When properly tensioned the top ear ends up in the same place the original 60a did (the ear is threaded too!) Iíve got the small mustang pulley on it as well. If I did my math right Iíve got a 3:1 ratio between the alt and crank pulley. With my 600 rpm idle Iíll have 1800 alt rpm so I should get plenty of output to run the stock electrical system without issue. As everyone has said not as good as the 130a but certainly better than the 60a.

    I didnít hook it up electrically yet to test. It needs to be reclocked for my wiring to work plus itís already back off the car. Iím taking it to a local alternator shop tomorrow to have it rebuilt. I like itís an original motor craft unit and I want to support local businesses.

    The car is put up for the winter but if the weather is still decent when I get it back Iíll fire it up for a nighttime cruise and report on how it performs.







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    Last edited by matth825; 11-16-2020 at 07:55 PM.

  18. #38
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    This help any?

    http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...l=1#post779808

    95 mustang GT 130amp alt on my car

    and further findings with ASP underdrive pulley on the crank:

    http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...l=1#post821295

    http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...l=1#post823542
    Last edited by 87gtVIC; 11-16-2020 at 08:13 PM.
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  19. #39

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    Thanks Vic! The gp-712 pulley is what I had on my 130 amp. I also used that same 6pk1285 belt. Interestingly with that belt Iím maxing out the the adjustment. My stock belt is a 6pk1270. I could almost, just almost get it on the 130a with the gp-712. I was pulling with all my might and it would not go on. The alternator was bottomed out and would not budge anymore. Maybe Iíll go throw it back on the car really quick and try one more time.


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  20. #40

    Default 3G Alternator Belt Squeal

    Gave the 130a one last shot last night. I pulled, pried, tugged, yanked, spoke nicely to and yelled at the stock belt. There is no way itís going on so I threw in the towel.

    Took the 95a to the rebuilder this morning. The man who greeted me at the counter was old, crabby and had a cigarette hanging out of his mouth. Place looked like it was stuck in the 80ís. Given all that I know itís in good hands. They do lots of custom builds for car audio as well as guys who are into CB contesting. Had a nice chat with the guy...he was full of knowledge. Itís a shame places like this are hard to find now.


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